What Does Gun Violence Really Cost?

[Pertinacious Tom]

America to stop measuring gun-related deaths in an effort to eradicate gun crime

US President Donald Trump says the nation’s gun crime will plummet thanks to a new policy which will see gun-related deaths no longer recorded.  

The President said the US – which currently has one of the highest rates of gun crime in the world – could expect to see the number of deaths caused by guns to drop to zero if his policy passes Congress.

“I have ordered for authorities to slow down the measurement of gun crime because it is adding to the number deaths,” Trump said at a press conference today. “The more you measure gun deaths, the more people are going to die. It’s as simple as that.”

The NRA has backed the move saying it is the best way to ensure that mass shootings at schools and shopping malls were eradicated while maintaining the right for Americans to bear arms.  In a statement the NRA said, “Guns don’t kill people. Gun statistics kill people”.

But most of our "gun deaths" are self-murders and don't have much to do with the extremely rare crimes that seem convenient for political exploitation by grabbers.

 

[jocal505]

...the extremely rare crimes that seem convenient for political exploitation by grabbers.

You are lying, as usual. The problem is not extremely rare.

There have been at least 87 mass shootings in June, shattering a single-month record set in May, when there were 60. — Gun Violence Archive

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

Australia Enjoys Another Peaceful Day Under Oppressive Gun Control Regime


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Due to the nation’s controversial and oppressive gun restrictions, no one has died as a result of a mass-shooting from an automatic or semi-automatic weapon on Australian soil today, for the 8499th day in a row.

North Betoota cinema attendant, Christina Upton can’t believe it has been a whole 23 years, 3 months and 8 days since a heavily armed white Australian male decided to shoot at a crowd of unsuspecting Australian civilians for no reason.

She says the peaceful two decades that have followed are “probably” because the Australian government decided to strip her of a God-given right to own projectile weaponry capable of shooting down helicopters.

“Yeah, I mean the Yanks come across as sick people. This year there have been more mass shootings in America than calendar dates… But it wasn’t that long ago that Australia had postal workers holding their entire office hostage with AR-15s”

Ms Upton, who claims to be able to walk freely outside of her home without fear of being killed by a mass shooter, believes that God-given rights probably play a bigger role in America’s mass shootings than Americans think.

“I don’t think America should be so hard on itself about the mental state of thousands of lonely white losers. We have those people too,”

“…Just in our country those people don’t have access to Russian-made automatic assault rifles that have been invented purely to help military personnel win wars,”

“If I was in America, I’d be terrified of working in a cinema – for fear that one of these losers would use their God-given rights to murder me in cold blood,”

Per 100,000 residents in Australia, less than 1 are expected to be killed by a firearm this year. This is heavily contrasted to the 10.5 in 100,000 who will be killed in America.

Local Betoota cop, Uncle Rick, says that this is because idiots have a harder time getting their hands on machine guns than criminals.

“I think America needs to realise that it’s not really the criminals and gangster you need to worry about as such. I’d be more concerned about the indoor types”

“Criminals use guns to help their efforts in making money through crime – they have much less interest in killing you for the sake of it,”

“Weirdos use guns to shoot up medical centres and primary schools for no reason other than the fact that they want to use their God-given rights,”

“In Australia. Our weirdos are forced to write stern letters,”

Still can't find the thread to talk about self-murders?

Still trying to pretend your confiscation program was about Russian machine guns and forgetting to include the ordinary .22's and museum collections?

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

You mentions .22?

And you mentions Russian machine guns but neglect to mention how important it is that Australians be prevented from owning ordinary .22's?

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

Gun Violence Cost Us A Boston Bomber

among other upstanding innocents...
 

...the funny thing about the “victims of gun violence” named by the tour: They included the Boston Marathon bomber. One in 12 of the “victims” were crime suspects, including a “man shot by police while he was holding a gun in another man’s face,” and a 19-year-old who was shot by a man protecting his granddaughter from him.

The names also included those of a former Los Angeles cop who went on a killing spree (and who demanded more “gun control”), a suspect who “died in a shootout after … opening fire on police,” and another suspect in the killing of four people who also tried to shoot it out with the cops.

...

 

[Keith]

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

 

[Mid]

Total annual cost of gun violence: $229 billion, 33,000 deaths and 80,000 injuries ...

Mother Jones spent 6 months calculating the total cost of gun violence in America. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/04/true-cost-of-gun-violence-in-america

No one should have to surrender or have to be threatened with the loss of their guns. Just as people who do not own guns should have to bare the cost of guns used improperly. That $229 billion should be charged directly to the people responsible for creating the cost, not to those who do nothing to create it.

Guns cost lives .

19 pages about money .

impossible to get more foked .

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

https://www.gungrabbyarchive.org/

View attachment 376888

And as usual, 2/3 of those are suicides.

Trudeau's recent confiscation program for (assault weapons, ordinary .22's) would do little about the suicides. To solve those through gun bans and confiscation programs, one would have to ban and confiscate any guns that fire one or more lethal rounds. Better get to work on that problem in your own country!

 

[jocal505]

And as usual, 2/3 of those are suicides.

Trudeau's recent confiscation program for (assault weapons, ordinary .22's) would do little about the suicides. To solve those through gun bans and confiscation programs, one would have to ban and confiscate any guns that fire one or more lethal rounds. Better get to work on that problem in your own country!

Ghoul alert ^^^. 

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

As an aside, right wing gun nuts (are there any other kind?) are always complaining about Chicago gun violence because a big city like Chicago has big totals. But per capita gun violence in Alaska is twice as bad. Indeed the untold story is that lightly populated but heavily armed rural America is a war zone and per capita gun violence there is a carnage.

It's true that Alaska has a high suicide rate. Does that really make it a war zone or just a depressing place to live?

The untold story you would like to see told is likely not told due to not being true.

Alaska has a slightly lower murder rate per hundred thousand than Illinois but if being rural explains it, why is Idaho at 1/3 the level of either one?

I agree with you that Chicago gets a bad rap due to its population and have noted several times that a city just South of me that I'll call Fort FatGrifter has a far worse rate. Dig a little deeper and you'll find it's a mostly safe city with a couple of small war zones. Um... stupid drug war, that is.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

In the US we kill each other a year the same as number of deaths in the whole Vietnam war,  Interesting Countries around the world that don't have the 2nd, don't seem to have this problem? 

If you had provided a source for this claim, I would quote where it uses self-murders to reach this result. Since you didn't, I'll just assert it from personal knowledge, having encountered the claim in the past.

The thing about it is, self-murderization has nothing to do with killing "each other." It's about killing oneself. And, as noted in this thread repeatedly, countries around the world that don't have the 2nd, DO seem to have this problem.

 

[Not for nothing]

If you had provided a source for this claim, I would quote where it uses self-murders to reach this result. Since you didn't, I'll just assert it from personal knowledge, having encountered the claim in the past.

The thing about it is, self-murderization has nothing to do with killing "each other." It's about killing oneself. And, as noted in this thread repeatedly, countries around the world that don't have the 2nd, DO seem to have this problem.

How does the gun death rate in the U.S. compare with other countries?


The gun death rate in the U.S. is much higher than in most other nations, particularly developed nations. But it is still far below the rates in several Latin American nations, according to a study of 195 countries and territories by researchers at the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington.

The U.S. gun death rate was 10.6 per 100,000 people in 2016, the most recent year in the study, which uses a somewhat different methodology from the CDC. That was far higher than in countries such as Canada (2.1 per 100,000) and Australia (1.0), as well as European nations such as France (2.7), Germany (0.9) and Spain (0.6). But the rate in the U.S. was much lower than in El Salvador (39.2 per 100,000 people), Venezuela (38.7), Guatemala (32.3), Colombia (25.9) and Honduras (22.5), the study found. Overall, the U.S. ranked 20th in its gun fatality rate.

 

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

Most of those deaths are self-murders, which as I noted have nothing to do with your statement about killing "each other."

Must be the guns.

 

[mathystuff]

Overall, the U.S. ranked 20th in its gun fatality rate.

20th worst out of 200 or so countries. Argueably 15th if you remove countries so small you have less than 100 cases.

60% as shitholey as afghanistan.

 

[Not for nothing]

20th worst out of 200 or so countries. Argueably 15th if you remove countries so small you have less than 100 cases.

60% as shitholey as afghanistan.

"That was far higher than in countries such as Canada (2.1 per 100,000) and Australia (1.0), as well as European nations such as France (2.7), Germany (0.9) and Spain (0.6)." 

 So We could discuss numbers and graphs all you want ,  Having killed in Nam, I came to the realization that Guns only one purpose to KILL, either your self or some one else , So if your not killing with a gun why own one?

And don't give me shit to protect youself? How are you protecting your self, (as noted ) if you killing yourself? which Tom pointed is the highest %

So going back to what I've always said ,2 kinds of people own guns cowards or killers ( I do make exception for hunting rifles shot guns or bolt action rifles)

And as far as the 2nd , a musket is ok 

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

I do make exception for hunting rifles shot guns or bolt action rifles

Why? Those work fine for killing yourself. If you're so very concerned about self-murders, why allow them?

 

[mathystuff]

So We could discuss numbers and graphs all you want ,  Having killed in Nam, I came to the realization that Guns only one purpose to KILL, either your self or some one else , So if your not killing with a gun why own one? 

And don't give me shit to protect youself? How are you protecting your self, (as noted ) if you killing yourself? which Tom pointed is the highest % 

Must have been horrible in vietnam. Glad you got through it.

The problem with having a gun for self protection is that it is a prisoners dilemma. If you're the only one with a gun it's useful for protection, but if a lot of people own guns, any criminal will count on you having a gun and bring his own. Instead of a potential loss of property it turns into a life and death situation. Same for cops if they have to expect guns. They feel threatened and are more likely to pull their guns.

 

[dacapo]

Cost : the second ex student of mine in less than a year was gunned down a few days ago. Jalani was 15 and just started 10 th grade. A shooter walked up behind him on Main Street in Poughkeepsie in daylight and out a hole in his head. 

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

"That was far higher than in countries such as Canada (2.1 per 100,000) and Australia (1.0), as well as European nations such as France (2.7), Germany (0.9) and Spain (0.6)." 

As we have seen on this forum, Canadian suicides don't count as "gun deaths" like US ones do. I think that's because of the gungrabby need to exploit suicides to pad the numbers and pretend they have something to do with shooting "each other" as you deceptively said.

Lots of countries with strict gun control have higher suicide rates than the US.

Lots of shithole countries have lower suicide rates than Spain, which has the lowest rate on your list.

 

[sshow bob]

"So going back to what I've always said ,2 kinds of people own guns cowards or killers ( I do make exception for hunting rifles shot guns or bolt action rifles)

I've never understood this argument. Of course when I carry a gun I do so to facilitate killing someone if it becomes necessary. Similarly, when I carry it is because I am afraid that if someone were trying to harm me, or my family, I couldn't avoid that harm unarmed. My ego has no problem admitting that fear.