What Does Gun Violence Really Cost?

jocal505

moderate, informed, ex-gunowner
14,513
362
near Seattle, Wa
As we have seen on this forum, Canadian suicides don't count as "gun deaths" like US ones do. I think that's because of the gungrabby need to exploit suicides to pad the numbers and pretend they have something to do with shooting "each other" as you deceptively said.
You are a bullshitter. Your info is wrong, as you are denying social science in your narrative.

The weakening of national gun control legislation has had an impact on gun crime in Toronto, says Wendy Cukier, head of the Toronto-based Coalition for Gun Control, one of Canada's leading gun control advocacy organizations. "As we progressively strengthened gun control in Canada," she says, "we saw the rates of gun violence, particularly suicide, violence against women and so on, fall. And for the last few years, we've seen an uptick."

(...) By the end of 2019, more than 760 people had been shot in the city (Toronto), 44 of whom were killed, according to Toronto Police. That's triple the number of shooting victims in the city in 2014.

https://www.npr.org/2020/01/17/794510796/why-gun-violence-is-surging-in-toronto

 
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jocal505

moderate, informed, ex-gunowner
14,513
362
near Seattle, Wa
 Canadian suicides don't count as "gun deaths" like US ones do.
I challenge this statement, using the facts on this page.

The same standards were applied within the various countries. Suicides were not subtracted from the Canadian figure. To explain your declarative sentence,, quoted above, you need to provide specific figures for your claim, not a spooled up propaganda thread.

REPEAT AFTER ME.: gun deaths in the USA are five times greater than Canada's, and suicide figures are not germane.

The U.S. gun death rate was 10.6 per 100,000 people in 2016, the most recent year in the study, which uses a somewhat different methodology from the CDC. That was far higher than in countri.es such as Canada (2.1 per 100,000) and Australia (1.0), as well as European nations such as France (2.7), Germany (0.9) and Spain (0.6).

 
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jocal505

moderate, informed, ex-gunowner
14,513
362
near Seattle, Wa
The thing about it is, self-murderization has nothing to do with killing "each other." It's about killing oneself.
In the broad picture, the issue is (gun) violence, as morbidity.

The World Health Organization approaches violence as harm to others, or to oneself.

Where are you coming from? Do you like suicides? Um, do you like dead kids?

 
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Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
63,981
2,204
Punta Gorda FL
 As we have seen on this forum, Canadian suicides don't count as "gun deaths" like US ones do.
I challenge this statement, using the facts on this page.
I can see why you cut out the link before challenging it. The fact is, counting US suicides while omitting Canadian ones is BS but no grabber will object because of the TeamD taboo against saying anything bad about any gun control advocate or policy.

 

Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
63,981
2,204
Punta Gorda FL
Cost : the second ex student of mine in less than a year was gunned down a few days ago. Jalani was 15 and just started 10 th grade. A shooter walked up behind him on Main Street in Poughkeepsie in daylight and out a hole in his head. 
Sorry for your loss. It's about shooting "each other" and not oneself, so kinda off topic in this thread but I think you're barking up the wrong tree. At least, if you're talking about this guy:

Fatal shooting of Poughkeepsie student: 'This was not random,' Rolison says

...

In order to identify the killer, Rolison is calling on community members to call city police or SNUG to say what they witnessed, including any minor details.

“Somebody knows something, and they need to help us do our job and hold people accountable,” Rolison said. “We need people to come forward who will testify against the individual or individuals who are responsible.”

...
I've seen statements like that one over and over when looking at "mass" shootings.

What kind of person would NOT come forward with info in such a case? A person afraid of drug war gangs is the answer that leaps to mind.

 

jocal505

moderate, informed, ex-gunowner
14,513
362
near Seattle, Wa
I can see why you cut out the link before challenging it. The fact is, counting US suicides while omitting Canadian ones is BS but no grabber will object because of the TeamD taboo against saying anything bad about any gun control advocate or policy.
You made a flakey claim, and it was unsupported by your link (to yourself). For the second time, I request that you  cite the mis-use of statistics you mentioned.

U.S. military’s suicide rate for active-duty troops up over the past five years, Pentagon says

Some 541 service members died by suicide in 2018, including 325 active-duty troops, the report said.

  • [SIZE=11pt]The active-duty suicide rate was about 24.8 per 100,000 service members, up from 21.9 in 2017 and 18.7 in 2013.[/SIZE]

 

  • [SIZE=11pt]The active-duty rates rose especially sharply in the Marine Corps, jumping from 23.4 per 100,000 in 2017 to 31.4, and in the Army, where it increased from 24.3 per 100,000 to 29.5.[/SIZE]

 




  • [SIZE=11pt] [/SIZE]In the same time frame, the rate for men jumped from 19.8 per 100,000 to 22.4 and the rate for women climbed from about 5 per 100,000 to 6.1.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2019/09/26/us-militarys-suicide-rate-active-duty-troops-rises-fifth-consecutive-year-pentagon-says/
Too many dead kids, the poor ones. Cuz CATO is kneeling on their necks, economically speaking, IMO.

Kids Living in Poverty Are 87 Percent More Likely to Die by Gun Suicide, Study Finds

The JAMA Pediatrics study is the first to examine the relationship between child suicide and poverty. Researchers looked at suicides among children 5 to 19 years old in the United States from 2007 to 2016, and compared them to U.S. Census Bureau data showing the percentage of people living below the poverty level in each county.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db352-h.pdf

[SIZE=11pt]Between 2007 and 2017, the suicide rate for people 10 to 24 years old (edit in the USA) climbed 56 percent, according to [/SIZE][SIZE=12.75pt]a report[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released in October 2019.[/SIZE]

https://www.thetrace.org/rounds/poverty-gun-suicide-link-study/
Hi dogballs. Bye dogballs.

 
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Burning Man

Super Anarchist
10,843
2,247
Back to the desert
BravoBravo said:
9mm is about $1 a shot these days thanks to BLM and ANTIFA ... if that is any help 
Not for me.  I'm still coming in at around $.20 a round.  Speaking of which, I need to go crank out ~200 rounds for the Glock this afternoon.  Taking SWMBO to the range in the am?  

 

F_L

Anarchist
846
164
Canyon Lake, TX
Not for me.  I'm still coming in at around $.20 a round.  Speaking of which, I need to go crank out ~200 rounds for the Glock this afternoon.  Taking SWMBO to the range in the am?  
After the many Obama era buying panics I started casting my own bullets. I'm in the sailboat biz so have access to a lot of junk boats with lead keels. My cost is about  a nickel a shot. I also sold my .556 upper and replaced it with a Blackout because the Blackout is much more cast bullet friendly. Just completed  a couple of Form 1s for a suppressor and SBR for the Blackout. First range trip for it is scheduled this week.

 

Burning Man

Super Anarchist
10,843
2,247
Back to the desert
After the many Obama era buying panics I started casting my own bullets. I'm in the sailboat biz so have access to a lot of junk boats with lead keels. My cost is about  a nickel a shot. I also sold my .556 upper and replaced it with a Blackout because the Blackout is much more cast bullet friendly. Just completed  a couple of Form 1s for a suppressor and SBR for the Blackout. First range trip for it is scheduled this week.
Very cool.  However, I would be very reluctant to shoot cast lead bullets in a suppressor in a high power rifle like the .300BO UNLESS you have a can that can be taken apart to clean.  Otherwise, you will get really heavy lead fouling that will ruin the suppressor quickly.  That's why most .22LR suppressors disassemble because they are usually lead bullets.  

 

F_L

Anarchist
846
164
Canyon Lake, TX
Very cool.  However, I would be very reluctant to shoot cast lead bullets in a suppressor in a high power rifle like the .300BO UNLESS you have a can that can be taken apart to clean.  Otherwise, you will get really heavy lead fouling that will ruin the suppressor quickly.  That's why most .22LR suppressors disassemble because they are usually lead bullets.  
I don't shoot plain lead. Everything is powder coated. The suppressor is user serviceable. Titanium tube with endcaps and removable baffles. The majority of Form 1 (DIY) suppressors are built this way. It's been a fun project. I still need to develop subsonic and supersonic  rounds for it. There is a lot of trial and error to follow.

 

Burning Man

Super Anarchist
10,843
2,247
Back to the desert
I don't shoot plain lead. Everything is powder coated. The suppressor is user serviceable. Titanium tube with endcaps and removable baffles. The majority of Form 1 (DIY) suppressors are built this way. It's been a fun project. I still need to develop subsonic and supersonic  rounds for it. There is a lot of trial and error to follow.
Ah that makes sense.  I got about 10K rounds of 9mm that is powder coated that I obtained in a bulk buy.  I wasn't sure that was good enough to shoot through a can.  Also, supposedly, you're not supposed to shoot lead bullets in a factory glock barrel because of the polygonal rifling (pistoling?), but I wonder if the coated lead bullets are OK because of the coating?  I need to do some research.  I'm only shooting FMJ at the moment for practice, but wanted to try some of these blue bullets.

 

sshow bob

Super Anarchist
2,371
315
Maine
BravoBravo said:
I found some 9MM. Reload for cheap SigSauer ammunition 

I don’t think Mrs BB will be able to handle the G43X, mentally , she is physically capable as many women her size easily do. I think a revolver is in her future 
Isn't a revolver going to have more impulse since there isn't a slide to attenuate it?

 

AJ Oliver

Super Anarchist
12,889
1,805
Sandusky Sailing Club
Just send this to our city officials - hope it works.  

Dear _____ City Commissioners and Officials - 

We just had the third shooting incident this year at Neil & Hancock Streets in _______. This time there was a fatality. That location is less than two blocks from our home.

This is not acceptable, for us or anyone else. We have a right to be safe in our homes. Something has to be done.

A number of cities have installed surveillance cameras in high-crime areas. I think it is time to consider it for _________.

Here is a summary of some of the research.

https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/27546/412401-Evaluating-the-Use-of-Public-Surveillance-Cameras-for-Crime-Control-and-Prevention-A-Summary.PDF

The courtesy of a response is requested.

Sincerely, _________________   
 

jocal505

moderate, informed, ex-gunowner
14,513
362
near Seattle, Wa
Weird that our self-murderization rate is lower than so many countries that have very strict gun control, isn't it?
Well, you are Kelo Tom, so I bet you can figger out many anomalies. 

It would take a dumbass, not a Kelo whiz type, to (repeatedly) deny the scientific evidence on suicide.

I understand your confusion, since scientific input is seldom to be found on reason.com:    :wacko:

--Suicides, Am Col of Physicians

Suicide Outcomes

We pooled data from 14 identified observational studies that assessed the odds of suicide ([SIZE=9.75pt]6[/SIZE][SIZE=9.75pt]8[/SIZE][SIZE=9.75pt]10[/SIZE][SIZE=9.75pt]16[/SIZE][SIZE=9.75pt]25[/SIZE]) and, using a random-effects model, calculated a pooled OR of 3.24 (95% CI, 2.41 to 4.40) with substantial heterogeneity (I2 = 89%; τ = 0.45) ([SIZE=9.75pt]Figure 2[/SIZE]). All but 1 study ([SIZE=9.75pt]20[/SIZE]) found significantly higher odds of suicide among participants who had firearm access than among those who did not, with ORs ranging from 1.38 to 10.38. http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=1814426#f2-6

--UCSF, Access to guns increases risk of suicide, homicide

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2014-01-access-guns-suicide-homicide.html

--HARVARD STUDY (yep, multiple studies, peer-reviewed)


Every study that has examined the issue to date has found that within the U.S., access to firearms is associated with increased suicide risk. http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/risk/

 
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Pertinacious Tom

Importunate Member
63,981
2,204
Punta Gorda FL
Well, you are Kelo Tom, so I bet you can figger out many anomalies. 

It would take a dumbass, not a Kelo whiz type, to (repeatedly) deny the scientific evidence on suicide.

I understand your confusion, since scientific input is seldom to be found on reason.com:    :wacko:
Other than your comments in that thread, Kelo has nothing to do with guns, so it's no surprise you don't even know eminent from imminent.

Reason rates high for factual reporting with the rating site used by many here to discredit sources.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/reason/

If grabbers would just come out and say, "We want to take your guns because we hold you responsible for the actions of criminals and we want to protect you from yourself," I wouldn't call bullshit on the nonstop "gun violence" mantra.

 

Mid

Blues Rule
What Does Gun Violence Really Cost?

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