What goes wrong with opti sails?

[Pinner]

There are only maybe 20 kids in the whole US who squeeze the last 5% of speed out of their sails. The most important part of choosing the sail is getting one for the appropriate weight range and tying it on properly.  Not all sails should be tied on the same way either.

That being said, as sails age they obviously get slower. Draft moves too far aft and the leech tapes shrink quite a bit, affecting the sails speed more so than degradation of the cloth.

The reality is that a kid with a new sail will beat an equally skilled kid with a tired sail of the same model. That's just the nature of equipment intensive sports.  

 

[wesley]

Lol 

 

[Kraftwerk]

I am using an old one as a shower curtain right now and it works pretty good for that.

 

[Mark Set]

opti sail shower curtains? That will be a nice touch in my seaside AirBnB to go along with the fishing net wall hanging and seashell coffee table!

 

[Major Tom]

I am using an old one as a shower curtain right now and it works pretty good for that.

Which make of Opti sails makes the best shower curtain?

 

[Kraftwerk]

This one was competition approved, "1997 Olimpic Sails Italy". No longer has it's window. The kid  who had it later campaigned for the olympics ( didn't make the cut ) I found it nailed to a tree in his back yard. Now it keeps water off the bathroom floor.

 

[Pinner]

Which make of Opti sails makes the best shower curtain?

J sails, they have the least luff curve 

 

[j.666]

My daughter (tiny 48 lbs) changed the set (spars and sail) this month from well-used might be more than 10 yo. club sail to new advanced/racing sail (JSails Green racing approoved, as they are manufactured in my country) and she... stopped winning training races.
I made the best of and perfected the old set and sail last autumn with her winning 1/3 of the races (light winds).
With new set I still need to learn how to tune it, as the sail is more rigid (factory new fabric) so very demanding while tuning-up every single tie. And the new spar set she got from the club is entry level, very flexible when compared to the more rigid old one (but I hope flex will help my tiny in the long run, after I learn it first).
So your child can have a lot of fun both with old or new.

 

[Goodvibes]

Stronger cloth would be heavier assuming dacron was used. All a matter of how cheap you can get materials. It's a supply and demand game. We're not exactly making pencils that go in every person's hand on the planet here. The rules would have to be consulted and changed the sail was to be spec'ed differently to allow for a more durable cloth and cut, but I think it could happen. It could happen, but you would have to have reasonably priced material, very cheap labor and the high demand to make a sail cheap.

So many words, so little content.

 

[MattFranzek]

Greedy people, that’s your answer. Tiger parents/helicopter parents/opti parents are an easy mark for semi-pros trying to make a quick buck, that’s why Opti race sails cost $600.

 

[martin 'hoff]

My daughter (tiny 48 lbs) changed the set (spars and sail) this month from well-used might be more than 10 yo. club sail to new advanced/racing sail (JSails Green racing approoved, as they are manufactured in my country) and she... stopped winning training races.
I made the best of and perfected the old set and sail last autumn with her winning 1/3 of the races (light winds).
With new set I still need to learn how to tune it, as the sail is more rigid (factory new fabric) so very demanding while tuning-up every single tie. And the new spar set she got from the club is entry level, very flexible when compared to the more rigid old one (but I hope flex will help my tiny in the long run, after I learn it first).
So your child can have a lot of fun both with old or new.

Kudos to you for spotting that the new sail gets in the way.

Because the Opti sail has short battens and heavy cloth, a brand new sail being rigid means it won't shape right in light winds.

Sounds likely that, together with figuring out the sail ties, you'll want to sail that sail in windy days. Needs to have its rigidity shaken out.

 

[Foredeck Shuffle]

Greedy people, that’s your answer. Bulldozer Tiger parents / helicopter parents / Opti parents are an easy mark for semi-pros trying to make a quick buck, that’s why Opti race sails cost $600.

FTFY

Why the heck are kids tying on sails?!? Are we preparing them for some dystopian future where sails can only be tied to the spars?

 

[Sailbydate]

Saying this, it would appear that once a certain make of sail does well at a world championships, then most of the top sailors from all over the world tend to move to that brand, making it easier for that sailmaker to raise their prices accordingly as there is a good chance they will continue to dominate as they have an almost monopolistic control over the potential regatta winners.

The kids sure know the 'fast' brands, from what I see.

 

[CaptainAhab]

What is the difference between a new optisail and well used one? The sails are so teeny and the stresses relatively lower than any other sails, I can't imagine that much change with use.

Opti sails are like any other dacron sail. They stretch...alot. Multiple sails in 20+kts constant stretches any sail on any dinghy. The force on an Opti sail is the same force on a Laser sail. The righting moment on the Laser is higher, because the mast is taller. However, the force the fabric sees in the belly of the sail is about the same.

We've got (8) Club training Optis. We go through an iSails training sail every 4-5 years. They are wicked stretched by then. I replace them, when I can no longer properly depower them. Performance is a non issue.

You've entered in the Opti market. It is a semi one design boat. Different hulls by different manufacturers. Infinite number of sailmakers. Multiple masts. The kids can use different sails and rigs throughout the regatta. Stiff mast in the morning, flexi in the afternoon when the breeze picks up.

If you want a strict one design class with decent priced sails, go buy an Open Skiff. They have very high quality fully battened mylars that will last the 4 or 5 years you've got the boat for less money than an Opti racing sail.

 

[garland823]

Opti sails are like any other dacron sail. They stretch...alot. Multiple sails in 20+kts constant stretches any sail on any dinghy. The force on an Opti sail is the same force on a Laser sail. The righting moment on the Laser is higher, because the mast is taller. However, the force the fabric sees in the belly of the sail is about the same.

We've got (8) Club training Optis. We go through an iSails training sail every 4-5 years. They are wicked stretched by then. I replace them, when I can no longer properly depower them. Performance is a non issue.

You've entered in the Opti market. It is a semi one design boat. Different hulls by different manufacturers. Infinite number of sailmakers. Multiple masts. The kids can use different sails and rigs throughout the regatta. Stiff mast in the morning, flexi in the afternoon when the breeze picks up.

If you want a strict one design class with decent priced sails, go buy an Open Skiff. They have very high quality fully battened mylars that will last the 4 or 5 years you've got the boat for less money than an Opti racing sail.

Are $700 rudder/daggerboard sets still a thing?

 

[martin 'hoff]

The force on an Opti sail is the same force on a Laser sail. The righting moment on the Laser is higher, because the mast is taller. However, the force the fabric sees in the belly of the sail is about the same.

I'm 200 %in agreement with most of what you wrote, but have a question / quibble with the point above.

The key thing that stretches, IME, on a laser sail, is the leech, as it's used (via crazy vang and mainsheet tension) to bend the mast to make the sail flatter in big winds. Dacron vs a nice section of alum or CF.

On the opti the bend-the-mast tensions are present, but are a tiny fraction; and the mast sections are way bendier.

 

[Foredeck Shuffle]

What goes wrong with opti sails?

There get made? Sold? Used?

The tying of sails like some 12th century fisherman has convinced me that my kid may get an Open Skiff, but if they want an Opti they will have to find another source of disposable income.

A ridiculous boat with a class that has few redeeming elements other than being big, which is at the same time a negative.

 

[CaptainAhab]

I'm 200 %in agreement with most of what you wrote, but have a question / quibble with the point above.

The key thing that stretches, IME, on a laser sail, is the leech, as it's used (via crazy vang and mainsheet tension) to bend the mast to make the sail flatter in big winds. Dacron vs a nice section of alum or CF.

On the opti the bend-the-mast tensions are present, but are a tiny fraction; and the mast sections are way bendier.

You see a huge amount of stretch in both the bottom 1/3rd of Laser & Opti sails. It's obvious because you end up using up the outhaul to get a design speed(12kts) and have nothing else to pull in at higher wind velocities. It essentially becomes a bag. You are correct about the Laser sail leach. You know the sail is trashed when you can't point anymore. I was talking beyond that in terms of stretch.

 

[sunseeker]

Are $700 rudder/daggerboard sets still a thing?

No. That’s crazy talk. $1100 now. Supply chain issues, and most often you really should buy a couple of them, get them laser measured to make sure you get a completely fair set. The really cool kids have them flown to the Vatican and have them baptized in holy water.

 

[H-77]

Are $700 rudder/daggerboard sets still a thing?

As much as I think most aspects of opti sailing have gotten out of hand, I'm not sure I can argue too much with the foil prices. The foils on an opti aren't all that much smaller than for a laser / 420 / whatever, but they are still significantly cheaper.

Opti Rudder: $270
Laser Rudder: $550
E-scow Rudder: $595 x2
420 Rudder: $650
M14 rudder: $850

 

[chuso007]

There get made? Sold? Used?

The tying of sails like some 12th century fisherman has convinced me that my kid may get an Open Skiff, but if they want an Opti they will have to find another source of disposable income.

A ridiculous boat with a class that has few redeeming elements other than being big, which is at the same time a negative.

No really, tell us how you feel.

Don't let anything inside.

PS: I have two kids in the class and they couldn't love it more.