What, if anything, does the citizen owe society?

[Steam Flyer]

I don’t spend a penny on BP medication

Because that dadgum socialized medicare system pays for it?

 

[Steam Flyer]

The corruption is covered up by the corrupters
Just like those Philly vote counting centers where observers were not allowed to observe and windows covered up.
Just like swing states not able to count votes in a timely manner and delaying the count until they knew how many ballots they needed. ...

Accusations with no evidence.

More terrible things that never happened.

...
Absolutely there is no reason not to count mail in ballots as they arrive.

Other than the time wasted versus counting them all at once, efficiently. But hey, we don't want the government to spend our tax money wisely, do we? Throw it out the window on foolish bullshit!

 

[Swimsailor]

So, what the RWNJ'S have established here in this thread is that government subsidies are great for farmers, oil companies and billionaire job creators but bad for the poor, elderly, students and marginalized communities. Did I miss anything?

 

[phillysailor]

Yeah, they also believe in unsubstantiated conspiracy theories that have been debunked by the highest courts in the land.

 

[Bus Driver]

Yeah, they also believe in unsubstantiated conspiracy theories that have been debunked by the highest courts in the land.

And, many of the judges who've overseen these claims/suits were appointed by the defeated ex-President.

Kinda hard to play the "activist judge" card in that scenario.

 

[Marty Gingras]

Quoted for posteriority.

I'm so confused.

 

[MR.CLEAN]

You some how fail to understand that you too will be one of the “ up against the wall mother fuckers” when the time comes.

And yet somehow I have no fear for that day. Does it suck to be a coward?

 

[Steam Flyer]

So, what the RWNJ'S have established here in this thread is that government subsidies are great for farmers, oil companies and billionaire job creators but bad for the poor, elderly, students and marginalized communities. Did I miss anything?

Also for RWNJs who have expensive prescription medication, but that money ends up going into the hands of billionaire CEOs, so that makes it the good kind of socialism.

 

[BeSafe]

The constitution doesn’t really require much but it does imply some obligations:

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
----------------------------------------
“We the People of the United States” – that means everyone

“..in Order to form a more perfect Union..” – that’s the aspirational goal

“establish Justice” – that implies that we must, as citizens, vote, participate in juries and support the legal system by being witnesses or experts if called, not obstruct investigations, surrender to law enforcement if accused, etc.

“insure domestic Tranquility” – this is the most open ended in my opinion but basically don’t be an ass in public spaces such screaming “fire” in theaters.

“provide for the common defense” – volunteer for military service if able/willing

“promote the general Welfare” – again pretty broad but suggests paying your taxes. It may include stuff like helping your neighbor, volunteering in times of crisis, joining civic groups, etc.

“secure the Blessings of Liberty,” – blessings of liberty is basically a euphamism for the Bill of Rights

“to ourselves and our Posterity” – is an enduring obligation.

 

[Talchotali]

Victor Hugo weighs in:

“The son of a father to whom history will accord certain attenuating circumstances, but also as worthy of esteem as that father had been of blame; possessing all private virtues and many public virtues; careful of his health, of his fortune, of his person, of his affairs, knowing the value of a minute and not always the value of a year; sober, serene, peaceable, patient; a good man and a good prince; sleeping with his wife, and having in his palace lackeys charged with the duty of showing the conjugal bed to the bourgeois, an ostentation of the regular sleeping-apartment which had become useful after the former illegitimate displays of the elder branch; knowing all the languages of Europe, and, what is more rare, all the languages of all interests, and speaking them; an admirable representative of the “middle class,” but outstripping it, and in every way greater than it; possessing excellent sense, while appreciating the blood from which he had sprung, counting most of all on his intrinsic worth, and, on the question of his race, very particular, declaring himself Orleans and not Bourbon; thoroughly the first Prince of the Blood Royal while he was still only a Serene Highness, but a frank bourgeois from the day he became king; diffuse in public, concise in private; reputed, but not proved to be a miser; at bottom, one of those economists who are readily prodigal at their own fancy or duty; lettered, but not very sensitive to letters; a gentleman, but not a chevalier; simple, calm, and strong; adored by his family and his household; a fascinating talker, an undeceived statesman, inwardly cold, dominated by immediate interest, always governing at the shortest range, incapable of rancor and of gratitude, making use without mercy of superiority on mediocrity, clever in getting parliamentary majorities to put in the wrong those mysterious unanimities which mutter dully under thrones; unreserved, sometimes imprudent in his lack of reserve, but with marvellous address in that imprudence; fertile in expedients, in countenances, in masks; making France fear Europe and Europe France! Incontestably fond of his country, but preferring his family; assuming more domination than authority and more authority than dignity, a disposition which has this unfortunate property, that as it turns everything to success, it admits of ruse and does not absolutely repudiate baseness, but which has this valuable side, that it preserves politics from violent shocks, the state from fractures, and society from catastrophes; minute, correct, vigilant, attentive, sagacious, indefatigable; contradicting himself at times and giving himself the lie; bold against Austria at Ancona, obstinate against England in Spain, bombarding Antwerp, and paying off Pritchard; singing the Marseillaise with conviction, inaccessible to despondency, to lassitude, to the taste for the beautiful and the ideal, to daring generosity, to Utopia, to chimeras, to wrath, to vanity, to fear; possessing all the forms of personal intrepidity; a general at Valmy; a soldier at Jemappes; attacked eight times by regicides and always smiling; brave as a grenadier, courageous as a thinker; uneasy only in the face of the chances of a European shaking up, and unfitted for great political adventures; always ready to risk his life, never his work; disguising his will in influence, in order that he might be obeyed as an intelligence rather than as a king; endowed with observation and not with divination; not very attentive to minds, but knowing men, that is to say requiring to see in order to judge; prompt and penetrating good sense, practical wisdom, easy speech, prodigious memory; drawing incessantly on this memory, his only point of resemblance with Caesar, Alexander, and Napoleon; knowing deeds, facts, details, dates, proper names, ignorant of tendencies, passions, the diverse geniuses of the crowd, the interior aspirations, the hidden and obscure uprisings of souls, in a word, all that can be designated as the invisible currents of consciences; accepted by the surface, but little in accord with France lower down; extricating himself by dint of tact; governing too much and not enough; his own first minister; excellent at creating out of the pettiness of realities an obstacle to the immensity of ideas; mingling a genuine creative faculty of civilization, of order and organization, an indescribable spirit of proceedings and chicanery, the founder and lawyer of a dynasty; having something of Charlemagne and something of an attorney; in short, a lofty and original figure, a prince who understood how to create authority in spite of the uneasiness of France, and power in spite of the jealousy of Europe, — Louis Philippe will be classed among the eminent men of his century, and would be ranked among the most illustrious governors of history had he loved glory but a little, and if he had had the sentiment of what is great to the same degree as the feeling for what is useful."​

 

[Vieux Port]

Cleats and bullrails on all docks.

 

[phillysailor]

I would argue that “providing for the common defense” covered much more than simply serving in the armed forces.

In revolutionary days, sewing uniforms and flags, helping to make ammo pouches, feeding and supplying men and livestock, allowing land to be used for billeting and training, nursing the sick and injured, raising funds, burying the dead, scouting for troops and a myriad of other activities provided for the national defense.

Nowadays, most people just pay their taxes, a fair portion of which go to pay for the military and for past wars. Without these funds the military would have to have a bake sale to get uniforms or a stealth bomber.

So I’d say every taxpayer these days is “providing for the national defense.”

 

[Dog 2.0]

I do not acknowledge that this trend exists, and nor should you.

The types of people telling you that the deadbeats/welfare queens/drag queens/LGBTQ/jews/whatevers/fill-in-the-blank are the cause of societal financial woes - giving you someone to kick down on - are in fact the same ones who are hoarding the resources and causing the financial woes.

They're also the same types of people who told you the voting machines were rigged, and now have to pay 3/4 Billion dollars for lying to you. Why do you keep believing them?

Deadbeats and welfare queens actually are a drag on the system. And nobody said drag queens, LGBTQ, Jews or whatevers/fill-in-the-blanks are.

 

[Nice!]

Deadbeats and welfare queens actually are a drag on the system. And nobody said drag queens, LGBTQ, Jews or whatevers/fill-in-the-blanks are.

Hitler said Jews were. The little dicktator in Florida is trying to say the gays are the problem. The point is, it doesn't matter what minority, religion, demographic or immigrant group is identified as the "problems of society", the reality is that it's a ruse used over and over in history by those who are siphoning off the top. And it's being done right in front of your face by the current Republicans.

 

[Steam Flyer]

Deadbeats and welfare queens actually are a drag on the system. And nobody said drag queens, LGBTQ, Jews or whatevers/fill-in-the-blanks are.

And yet, the Constitution makes no provision for seperating people into "drag on the system" and more superior types.

In fact, quite the opposite. The Constitution provides that ALL be assumed equal, and treated equally by the law.

So the first thing you (and your elk) want to do is throw away one of the fundamental ideals of America, as well as the solid grounding of the Constitution... you are anti-American.

 

[Talchotali]

Charlie and friend weigh in:

 

[Nice!]

Explain why it is absurd to remove religious material from publicly funded educational environments? Should we have separation of church and state or not?

In unrelated news:

#8 on the list of the Fourteen Characteristics of Fascism:

Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

@veni vidi vici
I'm still awaiting your response.
Why is it absurd to remove religious material from publicly funded educational environments?

 

[The Dark Knight]

"People who pay more in taxes over the course of their lives than they get back from the government. "

and this is the mentality that highlights why the USA is a fucked up 3rd world country. LOL

 

[Dog 2.0]

Hitler said Jews were. The little dicktator in Florida is trying to say the gays are the problem. The point is, it doesn't matter what minority, religion, demographic or immigrant group is identified as the "problems of society", the reality is that it's a ruse used over and over in history by those who are siphoning off the top. And it's being done right in front of your face by the current Republicans.

View attachment 595533

Ron DeSantis is not saying gays are the problem, Hitler's dead and no "minority, religion, demographic or immigrant group" has been identified as the problem.

 

[Dog 2.0]

And yet, the Constitution makes no provision for seperating people into "drag on the system" and more superior types.

In fact, quite the opposite. The Constitution provides that ALL be assumed equal, and treated equally by the law.

So the first thing you (and your elk) want to do is throw away one of the fundamental ideals of America, as well as the solid grounding of the Constitution... you are anti-American.

And yet there are people who are a drag on the system and recognizing that truth is not throwing away the fundamental ideals of America.