It is nice to see all of the rebuttals to the doubters and haters in the last few posts. According to ScowJunkie the owner has a history of sailing fast. Antrim has designed many fast boats. Scows have long been proven to be fast. This boat ticks all of the boxes for me: relatively fast, comfortable and easy to sail. Function creates beauty. Being a fashion victim....not so much.
what is it?
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Scowjunkie
New member
let's have a history investigation. surely someone can 'point' out exactly when humans began putting the point on the front. this has now been developed into the realm of stupid, especially when you think about designs that seem to sail half underwater with the lower portion of sails full of the sea as well, and everyone revels at the thought of spending time hiding from the danger of a wall of water flushing the deck.
the best part is when the crews are restricted from bringing anything 'heavy' on board to 'save weight'. how much does that water on deck weigh?, or when it's filled the cockpit? does that added displacement make the boat more stable or faster?
the point on the front. almost any shape, is dumb as a hundred years of dumb can make it.
change my mind.
the best part is when the crews are restricted from bringing anything 'heavy' on board to 'save weight'. how much does that water on deck weigh?, or when it's filled the cockpit? does that added displacement make the boat more stable or faster?
the point on the front. almost any shape, is dumb as a hundred years of dumb can make it.
change my mind.
See Level
Working to overcome my inner peace
I spent a month back in 74 or so sanding on Groot Beer, only sanding, until the guy who was going to apply the finish said "ok that's good"
Museum Quality boat.
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Scowjunkie
New member
cats... points are more logical perhaps. but who has tried the greenough spoon bow on something you want to go fast?
the spoon doesn't have to be big, just soft and lifty. george knew and did shit so right so long before anyone else. definitely lived a life not quite touching earth.
boats are simply a product of evolution. the chinese were doing cool shit 1500 years ago, all lost in the destruction of history by the ego of a mandarin.
To break a paradigm you have to prove the idea, often again and again, especially if there are significant financial interests being harmed by the shift. why didn't people want more wylie cat rigs? more freedom yachts? nonesuch? what stifled those expressions? did the boats not work well? if the scow junk doesn't work the laughter will be loud and loaded with appropriate insults.
if a lone effective scow design got into a tp-52 fleet and was demonstrably quicker, there would be some owners not happy to have value in the boats, at least for top level racing, be largely lost. the resistance can be expected.
and to have the concept demonstrated at the AC level? pressure against for sure.
meanwhile, some fool keeps wasting perfectly good vinyl ester resin on this turd/potato. and the boat builder is chuckling because he knows he will be building more. shit... i heard there was a mini-me dinghy that has been turned into a sensible 9'6" ocean voyager called CHUBBY GIRL. even the dinghy world might like them.
SJ
the spoon doesn't have to be big, just soft and lifty. george knew and did shit so right so long before anyone else. definitely lived a life not quite touching earth.
boats are simply a product of evolution. the chinese were doing cool shit 1500 years ago, all lost in the destruction of history by the ego of a mandarin.
To break a paradigm you have to prove the idea, often again and again, especially if there are significant financial interests being harmed by the shift. why didn't people want more wylie cat rigs? more freedom yachts? nonesuch? what stifled those expressions? did the boats not work well? if the scow junk doesn't work the laughter will be loud and loaded with appropriate insults.
if a lone effective scow design got into a tp-52 fleet and was demonstrably quicker, there would be some owners not happy to have value in the boats, at least for top level racing, be largely lost. the resistance can be expected.
and to have the concept demonstrated at the AC level? pressure against for sure.
meanwhile, some fool keeps wasting perfectly good vinyl ester resin on this turd/potato. and the boat builder is chuckling because he knows he will be building more. shit... i heard there was a mini-me dinghy that has been turned into a sensible 9'6" ocean voyager called CHUBBY GIRL. even the dinghy world might like them.
SJ
SloopJonB
Super Anarchist
I was on Groote Beer when it was here decades ago. Had the most incredible woodwork on deck and below. Basketweave countertops completely immersed in varnish.
Surprisingly small interior for such a huge boat - not much bigger than a 38' contemporary boat - except the beam.
Fiji Bitter
I love Fiji Bitter
Quite an amusing story about the Groote Beer, with quite a moral story for US voters at the end:
https://sea-to-summit.net/the-amazing-life-of-the-groote-beer-and-jack-van-ommen/
And this is a truly breathtaking video of the same Groote Beer on its way to the yard right in the harbour of an old fishing village. This after an earlier refit when the sling broke at launch, and she fell 5 meter, smashing half the wooden botter.
Sorry for the thread drift, but it's all about scows, which comes from the dutch Schouw or Skou. And botter translates as "blunter", how appropriate!
ronnie_simpson
Anarchist
I was wondering if that was Barry's new boat. I saw those drawings two years ago. As someone else in this thread mentioned, the owner gives exactly zero fucks what anyone else thinks of his boat. He is an eccentric individual, a bit quirky, but he's a genius and a great dude. He has helped me out many times over the years. He basically innovated and revolutionized the wind surfing game and won a ton of titles and records as a rig and sail designer. He has a WestSail 42 now and likes being comfortable with his wife, but then he wanted to go fast while downwind cruising in the trades. So he thought up a concept to do just that and then hired a naval architect to design it, and then shopped around for a builder. When Barry is cruising fast with his lovely wife and sipping a glass of wine at 14 knots, he'll be the one getting the last laugh. Certainly not built for everyone's tastes, but then again Barry isn't trying to fit in. He built a boat a long time ago in SF and then partied with Moitessier in French Polynesia back in the day. Lost the boat in New Zealand though, when his crew fucked up while on night watch and they hit the bricks. ACtually wrote a pretty cool book about it called 'letters to Mom' or something, where he took all his letters that he sent to his mom and then filled in the blanks and wrote a book about his early days from a vagabond to biulding a boat to a vagahbond again and then to moving to Maui and dominating the wind surfing industry. The dude is legit. Haters gonna hate, players gonna play, Barry gonna cruise like e'eryday
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SPORTSCAR
Super Anarchist
The great unwashed
Member
I’m old enough to remember some of the rule-beater boats (Cascade, e.g.) made up to beat the IOR rules. Man, those boats were ugly—both the rule beaters and the pinch-ended, under-ruddered, broach-happy IOR boats they beat. This boat is being built without regard to rating rules, but instead to sail especially well under specific circumstances, rules (rating and “traditional” aesthetic) be damned. I like that. If it sails fast, it’s a success. I’d much rather look at this boat than one more goddamn euro-style deck salon clone from one of the major builders.
Fiji Bitter
I love Fiji Bitter
Looks like a dead owl inspired this rig...You mean this?
Needless to say that that Barry S. knows a little bit much about sail shapes!
https://player.vimeo.com/video/9704577?app_id=122963
12 metre
Super Anarchist
That would be Cascade. Loophole was it was a Cat Ketch and IOR wasn't intending to measure those. Probably should never have been allowed to measure IMO
Much like Gord Trowers Mach 1 - which never got built because it was basically deemed unmeasurable - although his slightly less radical Warbird did get built and measured.
Photo below is after they closed the loophole so they put a Star jib on Cascade to meet the minimum jib requirement.
Also Trower's Mach 1 and Warbird
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LB 15
Cunt
Hey dude by agreeing with all the other people wanting to show how hip and free thinking they are by hating on production boats, you show you are a true anarchist.
Wait. Oh never mind...
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Left Shift
Super Anarchist
And the wave making characteristics of a vacuum are exactly what? LOA to the 26th power?
The great unwashed
Member
Finally, I’ve been insulted by LB. My life is complete.
t.rex
Member
Form follows function.
Imagine you are the WLYDO and this client, whom you sort of know of, shows up at your door. He's not Joshua Slocum, but he didn't just sell the farm in Iowa to buy a Mac-86.
In fact, in his young adulthood he built a 38' Atkin - Ingrid sailboat, in the sense he literally constructed it himself, everything ... right down to the custom cast bronze fittings. And he cruised it in the Pacific Ocean from San Francisco to New Zealand.
I lifted the design brief from https://reddogyachts.com/sv-rosie-g
Now there is lot to agree with, and some things to object to:
Row away factor:
Just holding up a piece of paper to the screen, it looks like a slight reverse sheer. I like short overhangs so the profile is rather handsome. A hard doghouse means shelter from the rain and sun. You don't like scow bows? HTFU
Imagine you are the WLYDO and this client, whom you sort of know of, shows up at your door. He's not Joshua Slocum, but he didn't just sell the farm in Iowa to buy a Mac-86.
In fact, in his young adulthood he built a 38' Atkin - Ingrid sailboat, in the sense he literally constructed it himself, everything ... right down to the custom cast bronze fittings. And he cruised it in the Pacific Ocean from San Francisco to New Zealand.
I lifted the design brief from https://reddogyachts.com/sv-rosie-g
- Monohull
- Outside ballast, preferably cast lead for grounding
- Modern junk rig with 200 lb carbon mast and engineered sail structure
- Cockpit to galley/nav/dining same level feel. No ladders.
- Forward flush deck
- Scow bow 8’0” wide 2’0” back
- Electric power
- Large deck hatches
- LOA 42’0”
- Beam 14’0”
- LWL 41’0”
- Draft 4’0” (7’6” board down)
- Displacement 20,000 lb
- Ballast (cast lead) 7,500 lb
- Sail Area 842 Sq Ft
Now there is lot to agree with, and some things to object to:
- The monohull - mutihull debate will go on forever. Monohulls should recover from a rollover. +
- Intentional grounding should always be considered for a cruising boat. + Outside ballast with stainless steel bolts is debatable. -
- The 'modern' junk rig has been around for 1500 years, one halyard, one sheet, no chainplates, no shrouds, no spreaders, no chafe. +
- Cockpit to galley/nav/dining same level. No ladders. This is the real crux. For 99.9% of your time you're at anchor and this walkspace is a real godsend. + For that 0.00001% of the time when a wave crashes into the stern cockpit, is it too much water below the sheerline ? Is the 'companionway hatch' into the doghouse strong enough?
- Forward flush deck +
- Scow bow 8'0" wide 2'0" back means space to store bicycles, sups, inflatables etc below deck during passages. The interior volume is equivalent to a modern 55-60 footer. +
- Electric [propulsion] power meh
- Large deck hatches +
- Ballast / Displacement = 7500 lb / 20000 lb = 0.375
- Sail Area / Displacement = 842 sq ft / ((20000 lb / 64 lb-cu ft)^2/3) = 18 suggests relatively high performance +
Row away factor:
Just holding up a piece of paper to the screen, it looks like a slight reverse sheer. I like short overhangs so the profile is rather handsome. A hard doghouse means shelter from the rain and sun. You don't like scow bows? HTFU
