what say you?

Editor

Administrator
Staff member
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carlsbad
F15s-1.jpg


The rule experts at the protest hearing must have had a wonderful time establishing who had rights in this Flying 15 contretemps.

Was it Part 2, 11 (On the same tack, overlapped, windward boat shall keep clear of a leeward boat), or maybe this was a “not sail below proper course” situation? What think you?

Title inspiration thanks to XTC.

 

Heisenberg

New member
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32
More facts would need to be established to truly know what transpired, but based on the information available:  Both boats violated rule 14, avoiding contact. Windward did not "keep clear" of leeward. Leeward, based on their advanced angle of heel perhaps did not allow sufficient room and opportunity for windward to keep clear when leeward changed course. If these are the correct facts, leeward is penalized for not allowing windward room and opportunity to keep clear, and windward is exonerated from breach of rule 14 if no damage or injury occurred. Additional questions arise with respect to how the leeward overlap was established. If leeward established from clear astern within 2 boat-lengths, leeward was restricted from sailing above its proper course.

Our game / rules are too complicated, but perhaps that's just the nature of the game.

 
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Lynch

Member
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Ireland
This is the second time around for this crash, as I recall it made the front page a few months ago

Is the ed checking on our recall or has his failed?

 

d'ranger

Super Anarchist
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That is a demonstration of "a picture is worth a thousand words" which would be the minimum to get to a decision.

 

BobBill

Super Anarchist
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SE Minnesota.
These are F15 keelers. assuming must have been former, and d'ranger makes a good point...seems to be familiar pic...but what do I know?

 

TJSoCal

Super Anarchist
More facts would need to be established to truly know what transpired, but based on the information available:  Both boats violated rule 14, avoiding contact. Windward did not "keep clear" of leeward. Leeward, based on their advanced angle of heel perhaps did not allow sufficient room and opportunity for windward to keep clear when leeward changed course. If these are the correct facts, leeward is penalized for not allowing windward room and opportunity to keep clear, and windward is exonerated from breach of rule 14 if no damage or injury occurred. Additional questions arise with respect to how the leeward overlap was established. If leeward established from clear astern within 2 boat-lengths, leeward was restricted from sailing above its proper course.

Our game / rules are too complicated, but perhaps that's just the nature of the game.
There's no "opportunity" any more either, and ROW only owes the keep clear boat room to keep clear initially on gaining ROW (rule 15) or if ROW is changing course (rule 16). It also looks as though 3695's pole may be in the water and she may have just crash-gybed, so this may have begun as a port-starboard. So not enough from this snapshot, I think, to say. Would need to collect more facts about what led up to the incident.

Also possible exonerations for rule 14 violations (43.1(c) in the 2021-2024 rulebook.

 

hobot

Super Anarchist
There's no "opportunity" any more either, and ROW only owes the keep clear boat room to keep clear initially on gaining ROW (rule 15) or if ROW is changing course (rule 16). It also looks as though 3695's pole may be in the water and she may have just crash-gybed, so this may have begun as a port-starboard. So not enough from this snapshot, I think, to say. Would need to collect more facts about what led up to the incident.

Also possible exonerations for rule 14 violations (43.1(c) in the 2021-2024 rulebook.
Hey, hey.....hey, Mr. Serious answer dude,  you're inside the "First ten posts are for giving the Ed shit" rule.

 
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As a former F15 sailor I can tell you it doesn't take a whole lot to broach especially in puffy conditions. Judging by  position of the crew (oh shit!!!!!!) on the leeward boat I would say that the rudder has suddenly let go and up they went. Nowhere for 3496 to go.

 

BobBill

Super Anarchist
4,611
101
SE Minnesota.
We would take a heavy gust and boat would heel and automatically round up, as rudder lost it and loved the feature, but Inshallah, maketh perfect sense. And it happens so fargin fast. 

Trouble seems to be in a hearing, everyone lies...Which, maketh me wonder if pic was used as evidence of something not yet mentioned?


 
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