what to use for the tack line

Parma

Super Anarchist
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Zero on a furler, not happy with the amount of stretch my current tack line has since stretch causes the continuous line furler to misbehave.

33' boat, 10,000lbs /  4500kilos MH zero on a sprit

what are you guys (who have a zero on a furler) using? or reccomend?

 

EWS

Super Anarchist
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3
if it's a short sprit consider a fixed attachment point. If it's more traditional look into going 2:1 with it

 

Parma

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What core material and size are you currently running?

Is it line stretch or clutch slippage?
It's not slippage through the clutch. 3/8s but uncertain about the core material and sort of irrelevant except to be sure I don't replace it with the same.

 

Parma

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if it's a short sprit consider a fixed attachment point. If it's more traditional look into going 2:1 with it
Nope, tried that but it was hard to attach / detach. Always seems to be a big mboat wake when I'm kneeling at the bow mussing with stuff. Having it on a tack line & furler makes for simple in & outs of the forward anchor locker.

Always looking to refine the operation: more simple, easier, less to go "wrong" and a less stretchy tack line might be better.

 

Zonker

Super Anarchist
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Unless it's straight dyneema 3/8" isn't big enough I think. Probably will creep.

Either straight dyneema or 7/16" dyeenema core + polyester cover.

 

SailAnotherDay

New member
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USA
It's not slippage through the clutch. 3/8s but uncertain about the core material and sort of irrelevant except to be sure I don't replace it with the same.
Sta-Set X has a 1 - 2% stretch characteristic, meaning a 20’ length will stretch up to 4.8”. 
High tech cores tend to flatten under load, which is why a proper clutch is important. 
 

A dyneema/poly blend will give you better holding characteristics in an older clutch but you will increase stretch. 

 

Parma

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It's already 2:1. I took a Harken EP block and had a local machine shop modify it because the existing set screw was incapable of resisting the amount of twist induced by the drum & furling line.

The line shown in the photo is NOT the current tack line, having been replaced several years ago.

As it stands now we furl and drop the whole thing into the forward anchor locker, leaving all the lines (sheets, tack & furling line) attached so it can be hauled right back out & up

. 20170514_122500.jpg

 

Parma

Super Anarchist
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396
here
Sta-Set X has a 1 - 2% stretch characteristic, meaning a 20’ length will stretch up to 4.8”. 
High tech cores tend to flatten under load, which is why a proper clutch is important. 
 

A dyneema/poly blend will give you better holding characteristics in an older clutch but you will increase stretch. 
Good information to have, thanks.

 

ryley

Super Anarchist
5,507
663
Boston, MA
I've been using endura-braid for my tack lines. I don't see a lot of stretch. the code tack line is 2:1, but can be undone to do peels. I've had good luck with this line, fairly easy to splice. dyneema core, polyester cover. comes from 6mm to 14mm. I use 8mm for mine, 8100 lbs tensile strength.

 

SimonGH

Member
409
88
Westbrook CT
So I'm interested in this topic as well.

What was the conclusion here?

I have a rigidly fixed furler and a 1:1 halyard for my Code 0.  It's a 41' boat, so a pretty big sail.  Halyard is 1/2 Sta-set.  I feel like I have to put a lot of tension on it to furl properly, more than I can achieve with it sitting in the clutch (Spinlock XTS).  So I end up putting it on the winch and giving it extra tension prior to furling.

I can't do a 2:1 up top unless I step the mast and put the proper hardware in (pad eye).  So I'm wondering:

1. Is there a better halyard that will stretch less and / or the clutch will grip better

2. I can't change the clutch on the deck as it's part of a 3-pack, so I'd have to swap all three.  Is there a better choice?

3. My Jib halyard has a clutch on the mast.  Should I replicate that for the Code-0?  Then I avoid all the tension through the mast step block and line organizer. 

4. Do I add a 2:1 at the bob-stay and replicate the discussion here?  If so, what size / material and clutch combination?

It's a Code-0 with a UV cover, so I leave it hoisted, so i'm not too worried about it being accessible from the cockpit.

Thanks!!

Simon

 

ryley

Super Anarchist
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663
Boston, MA
I don't think sta-set is an appropriate halyard or tack line material for a code sail. It's too stretchy, and is reliant on the cover and the core so if the cover chafes at all you've lost a lot of strength. I feel the same about sta-set x. you want something core-dependent like viper or endura-braid or warpspeed or something else that has a dyneema (or similar) core, where the cover is more about chafe resistance than strength.

No need to change out your XTS clutches, but consider the ceramic cam upgrade that you can buy for around $100.

Won't comment on adding a mast clutch. Others will I'm sure.

adding a 2:1 at the bobstay may be a good move, but I don't have a fixed sprit. I can tell you that I tried locking the tack to a fixed point on the sprit and I had trouble getting enough tension with the halyard alone, so our current operation is to hoist the code on the halyard until it's made, then use the 2:1 to get the right tension on the luff. 

 

Snowden

Super Anarchist
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580
UK
fixed furler and a 1:1 halyard for my Code 0 ...  41' boat... Spinlock XTS
The clutch is your problem. An XTS is undersized for a Code halyard for a boat that size - 10 years ago on 40.7s we used XX powerclutches for genoa and code halyards, these days you'd probably be wanting a constrictor clutch like the Cousin Trestec / Ronstan / Spinlock XTX units (although I have heard mixed review of the Spinlock rope clutch).

 
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SimonGH

Member
409
88
Westbrook CT
I think the right approach from the info here is:

1. Swap the halyard with something core dependent

2. Mount a Ronstan constrictor clutch on the mast to take the tension instead of the XTS

Alternately I could add the lower tack line as a 2:1 and just cleat off the halyard to the mast cleat and get the right tension with the tack, using the ronstan clutch to hold it.  Looking at the owners manual, that seems to be the way Beneteau intended it to be done, as they clearly show a tack line.

 

Snowden

Super Anarchist
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UK
Mount a Ronstan constrictor clutch on the mast
I haven't seen that done; I suspect the issue is the overall length of the clutch including the bungee for the sleeve means you may struggle to fit it all in the space available. 2:1 tack line sounds better but check your other gear is properly specced to cope with the step-up in loads (i.e. sheave box properly riveted into the mast and so on).

 

SimonGH

Member
409
88
Westbrook CT
I have a somewhat unconventional idea that i'm going to test this weekend...  involving a 4:1 at the mast base

I had a couple of concerns (perhaps unfounded) regarding the way a tack line would have to run on my boat - I could do the 2:1 at the bobstay (it's fixed), but then i'd need to run the tack line all the way down the side of the boat (via fairleads on the stanchion bases) to a turning block and the aft winch.  So depending on the tension on that tack line, it seemed like having a very long, very tensioned line along the starboard toe rail, or at least until a suitable mounting point for a constrictor clutch.

Ultimately I can achieve sufficient tension to furl properly and get decent luff shape with the current 1:1 halyard.  My biggest concern is that there is excessive stress and tension on the gear to achieve that - there is a turning block at the mast step, then a deck organizer sheave, then the XTS clutch near the cabin top winch.  All of that sits under high loads all the time.  So while adding a tack line at the bobstay will make it easier to get more tension on the line, I still need to react that tension somewhere along the length of the halyard (i.e. it's got to be fixed somewhere), and ideally do it in a way that relieves the stress on the block, organizer and clutch.  In the simplest form, I'd want to tie off the halyard at the mast base (and have it react the load there) rather than have it terminate at the clutch near the winch.

So then I got to thinking - what if I could rig a 4:1 at the mast base between the fixed point and the halyard, and then just run the 4:1 line through the turning block, organizer, clutch, and then tension with the winch...  then the loads would be 25% to achieve the same halyard tension, right?

I was going to test this with some inexpensive climbing hardware (there are some neat high-load double sheaves for relatively low cost).  If it's successful then I've achieved everything necessary with a much simpler system...

I continue to appreciate everyone's excellent advice and experience on this forum.  thanks!

 

Snowden

Super Anarchist
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580
UK
What happens if the sail drops in the water while the boat is moving / you broach? You would then have a halyard under tension that you wouldn't be able to release without cutting it. With these loose-luffed sails you really want the ability to unload any corner individually if things go wrong.

 

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