What will Oracle modify during these 5 days to try to recover

[trig42]

Wow - that's a huge 'refill' rate. I wonder how long a 100% full system could support foil, rudder and wing adjustments in a straight line (no tacks/gybes) without crew pumping input. Or, put another way, I wonder how many watts of energy are needed to maintain steady pressure while straight-line sailing, and is that steady wattage easier for cyclors to generate? (I think we know the answer). 

I believe that stored oil cannot be used for wing adjustments at all. The accumulators can only be used for Daggerboard adjusts as far as I know. Sorry, haven't got the reference for that, but have read it on other topics in here a few times.

 

[TN_Kiwi]

I think one thing missing about grinders is that they evolved in heeling monos and even heeling trimarans. (The French ORMA 60s heel lots going to windward) As such I think that using arms may be better when you are dealing with angles of heel up to 25 degrees and pitching in a large seaway. The Swedes tried pedal grinders on their 12 meter boat - Sverige - designed and skippered by Pelle Pettersen but no-one followed them. On a boat with lots of crew work needed - kites and poles etc - the grinders may have been a better choice. 

However for a flat water foiling catamaran with no wild thing, gennakers, heel or sea to deal with cyclors seem to have an advantage. This is a good lesson in always reviewing your starting assumptions when conditions change. 

gimbled cyclor stations for offshore race boats would be a clever feat of engineering.

 

[JJHG]

Oracle won’t catch us: Team NZ coach


https://www.newsroom.co.nz/@sailing/2017/06/21/35239/oracle-wont-catch-us-team-nz-coach

 

[minimumfuss]

How much did you drop?

you have a very good chance

A whopping  10 NZD. Don't normally sports bet, but I really need to increase the tension and my blood pressure a bit more (not).

 

[Barnyb]

In fact all of Xerox are wagering their houses on it....

and their jobs!

 

[Miffy]

First time poster, but I have a weird crossover of cycling and sailing experience. 

I hope the AC tech will transfer to other boats like the Volvo Ocean 65. The grinder positions are already at the center of the boat so a recumbent position would work very well without gimbal or other complicated systems. Don't need clipin pedals, just use old school pedal cages. It'll really help ocean crews maintain better shift schedules because you would need fewer awake to man/woman the grinders. 

Imagine a solo/double crewed event where the sailor can sit in a reclined position with multiple controls, release a clutch, sheet out with one arm, push the tiller, sheet in with legs on the grinder. 

An an amusing story... that I feel comfortable talking about now. About a year ago I saw the AC rules get revised (I think the final revision at the time?), I flipped through it and noticed grinder rules didn't require arms and I posted that comment on Emirates and Oracle's respective social media sites as a question? It disappeared on Emirates. Stayed on Oracle. 

Got to say tho, I only thought hydraulics were used to adjust foils/large wing surfaces. Didn't expect the Kiwis to literally design the entire wing for hydraulics. The discipline in their camp, from the intentionally deceptive launch videos and what not featuring hand grinding. Amazing effort. 

Its like Operation Mincemeat. 

 

[1eyedkiwi]

Oracle won’t catch us: Team NZ coach


https://www.newsroom.co.nz/@sailing/2017/06/21/35239/oracle-wont-catch-us-team-nz-coach

I have to admit I am surprised by ETNZ's sudden public confidence.  To date they have stuck to the public message of "this is going to be incredibly tough" and "we are just glad that we are in the hunt".  I'm not sure I see the advantage of departing from that now.  Surely the only thing it will do is fire OR even more & what if they are wrong. Is it just that they were sandbagging, now don't have to hide their speed, and believe they are miles faster than OR or is it mind games?  I didn't expect that PR approach.  Thoughts?

 

[Sailbydate]

And GD is not who I'm referring to as an admirer. GD had to rebuild a shattered team and he took some hard decisions. Looks like he did a good job in difficult circumstances. Time will tell but ETNX are doing a mighty job at the moment. 

+1 When this thing is done, who could doubt GD's efficacy this time around?

 

[~Stingray~~]

I believe that stored oil cannot be used for wing adjustments at all. The accumulators can only be used for Daggerboard adjusts as far as I know. Sorry, haven't got the reference for that, but have read it on other topics in here a few times.

Agreed. Moonduster explained nicely today what the rules are. He knows..

 

[Sailbydate]

I have to admit I am surprised by ETNZ's sudden public confidence.  To date they have stuck to the public message of "this is going to be incredibly tough" and "we are just glad that we are in the hunt".  I'm not sure I see the advantage of departing from that now.  Surely the only thing it will do is fire OR even more & what if they are wrong. Is it just that they were sandbagging, now don't have to hide their speed, and believe they are miles faster than OR or is it mind games?  I didn't expect that PR approach.  Thoughts?

Could the comments about earlier sandbagging be right on the money?

I'm starting to think that Bernasconi knew he was ahead of the game pretty early on. He hinted as much when comparing AC34 boards to ETNZ's Batwing Whompers recently.

 

[Miffy]

+1 When this thing is done, who could doubt GD's efficacy this time around?

I'm waiting for an article after the Cup, if the Kiwis win? 

Dean Barker and Grant Dalton messy divorce was all a ploy. Barker was leaving papers on the kitchen table while old friends visited and kept an eye on Oracle from the inside. But... prob too good to be true. 

 

[Rawhide]

Though the grinders arn't in a position to make a decision on cyclors, they can influence it. You only have to look at the number of mates each skipper has surrounded himself with (except Jimmy who hasnt any) to see why teams stuck with grinders. I bet a lot where peddling the line that non sailors were too high a risk of doing something stupid. Pun intended.

 

[Sailbydate]

Though the grinders arn't in a position to make a decision on cyclors, they can influence it. You only have to look at the number of mates each skipper has surrounded himself with (except Jimmy who hasnt any) to see why teams stuck with grinders. I bet a lot where peddling the line that non sailors were too high a risk of doing something stupid. Pun intended.

When you get a low as ETNZ post AC34, you HAVE to look for new answers. You HAVE to ask the right questions. And clearly, they did.

A bloody good flogging can do wonders for morale. 

 

[E2nO]

Any chance you could link to the measurers query/reply you are talking about please?

Here you go: http://noticeboard.acracemgt.com/home/ac-class/ac-class-interpretations Int70
(or direct link: https://docs.google.com/a/acracemgt.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=YWNyYWNlbWd0LmNvbXxub3RpY2Vib2FyZHxneDozOTI5ZWExZjA5YmE4OTc3 )

 

[Miffy]

Here you go: http://noticeboard.acracemgt.com/home/ac-class/ac-class-interpretations Int70
(or direct link: https://docs.google.com/a/acracemgt.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=YWNyYWNlbWd0LmNvbXxub3RpY2Vib2FyZHxneDozOTI5ZWExZjA5YmE4OTc3 )

This interpretation reminds me of the WWII experimental guided bombs. Pigeons trained to tap at the target, sensors detect where pigeon is pecking at and adjusts fins. 

 

[jack_sparrow]

I hope the AC tech will transfer to other boats like the Volvo Ocean 65. The grinder positions are already at the center of the boat so a recumbent position would work very well without gimbal or other complicated systems. Don't need clipin pedals, just use old school pedal cages. It'll really help ocean crews maintain better shift schedules because you would need fewer awake to man/woman the grinders. 

A bit late to transfer to the 65 as this is their last outing. That aside the 65 a bad example as not much RM and lots of heel to the extent driver has to flatten them out to allow grinders to do their job. 

The new foiling Volvo 60 will be a different bunch of frogs. I recall a Open 60 trying pedal power a long time ago but can't remember which boat.

 

[Miffy]

Yep which is why I think recumbent positions would be ideal. We built a lot of them for paraolympic and older athletes with injured backs. You're reclined and hang on to bars at your sides, and pedal in front of you. Since your feet are in cages and low at center line, heel won't be as much of problem as grinding pedestals. 

 

[rgeek]

I have to admit I am surprised by ETNZ's sudden public confidence.  To date they have stuck to the public message of "this is going to be incredibly tough" and "we are just glad that we are in the hunt".  I'm not sure I see the advantage of departing from that now.  Surely the only thing it will do is fire OR even more & what if they are wrong. Is it just that they were sandbagging, now don't have to hide their speed, and believe they are miles faster than OR or is it mind games?  I didn't expect that PR approach.  Thoughts?

Good on em. Was worried that they where going to let an AC34 hang over cloud their mentality.

 

[ianz]

They thought they'd assisted SBTJ enough that they'd win the LVC, and wouldn't really need to race in the Cup to keep it? Silly answer, but not as silly as that good question needing to be asked!

I think this has some merit - when asked (back in March) who he thought he'd be racing against in the AC, JS said DB:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sailing/2017/05/24/sir-ben-ainslie-jimmy-spithill-forging-americas-cup-rivalry/

"Last year, when I asked Spithill which of the challenger skippers he’d like to face in the final, he didn’t need to ponder it. "I think it will be Dean [Barker, 2013’s defeated New Zealand skipper now leading Japan], but I want it to be Ben."

 

[Costro]

I think Chris Drapper from Softbank Xerox in the video today pretty clearly states they tested the wrong type of cyclist. They looked at heavy sprint cyclists instead of the lighter type ETNZ are using. Basically admits to not doing a proper job of analysing it.

You misunderstood mate. They tested cycling with actual cyclists who weighed 75kgs. Then decided it wasn't a huge power gain. Failing to realize that a 90kg cyclor would produce far more power than a traditional cyclist.