What's next in the Cruising queue...;)

[SASSAFRASS]

So we have started looking again, as crazy as it is we might decide a 65' wood schooner is not the best fit for a couple to do extended cruising on. Our first boat was a Crealock 36' frp ketch, number two the schooner. We have met lots of people on all kinds of boats. Our big priority is always water related fun. Like to have guests and have adult kid who surfs. Both of us like to dive. The wife keeps coming back to leopard 48's we spent time around a family on one it checks alot of boxes. Alot of the Amels the same. That said you can spend a insane amount of time on yacht world looking at lots of amazing boats. We are at least ten years out from leaving again probably five from purchase. Soo in the vain of window shopping what are you after for the next boat?? Curious for what people are looking at and why. We have definite parameters that have evolved over alot of time. What is driving others in their decision process?

 

[Mark Morwood]

We hopped off the heavy monohull path after our first cruising boat which was a Vancouver 36. Our second cruising boat was a lighter faster catamaran - Catana 48 - and never looked back. There was a Hobie 33 in between the two, but that wasn't for cruising. Our next/3rd/last cruising boat, if there is one, will likely be lighter and longer but with lower loads. Something interesting like: http://harryproa.com/?p=4374 . Such a radical step is probably not the right one for you if you want to carry dive compressors or the equivalent, but I would encourage you to explore the multihull path. Lots of advantages to going lighter, as you can manage with lower loads and keep the same or better performance.

 

[Jim in Halifax]

The title of your thread is a cue for my inner grammar nazi: Queue.

 

[Russell Brown]

Don't overlook homebuilt, custom built, or wood/epoxy boats. You could get a far better boat for less money, plus the cookie-cutter thing is not very attractive.

 

[SemiSalt]

The title of your thread is a cue for my inner grammar nazi: Queue.

vain of window shopping

What's the word when an error reveals a hidden truth?

 

[Jim in Halifax]

a malapropism?

 

[SASSAFRASS]

I have a hard enough time on complete sentences let alone spelling and Grammar....vanity in window shopping come on...

Pretty sure RB building would be a divorce but you never know. They seem harder to find but there are certainly alot of very nice one offs out there. It's fun to look with a very open agenda. Something that will sell easily most places is another consideration. After the last go round our perspective has changed a bit. I'm back nine to five and realizing the incredible amount of time that went into maintenance on our existing boat. Looking back we were almost always doing something. Usually not more than a few hrs a day before the heat kicked in, bit spread out over along time it was not a huge thing. Trying to squeeze the same thing in weekends and evenings is not so easy. I understand why the PT WBF is in September now, if you start in the spring you will just barely make it... One item we are looking very hard at is the balancing act of project boat/ clean no bells and whistles for better budget vs. Readish to go. That's a tough one and take a fair bit of thought. Also thinking about potential use before retirement so location somewhere nice and reachable at ok cost is a consideration. Our landlord is a retired NA who is more than a little sharp. He said we need to go out and charter once a year, not bad advice.

 

[Zonker]

We hopped off the heavy monohull path after our first cruising boat which was a Vancouver 36. Our second cruising boat was a lighter faster catamaran - Catana 48 - and never looked back. There was a Hobie 33 in between the two, but that wasn't for cruising

Ha. Just like us, almost identical pathway

First boat - Fortune 30, a heavy displacement mono not too different than a Vancouver 36
non serious boat - San Juan 24, for cruising for weekends only.
Second boat - 40' Woods design cat.

I'm not a fan of Harryproas. Aside from the ugliness they never seem to work properly and I am very convinced his hull scantlings are marginal.

Do you like to actually SAIL? The Leopard 48 ticks a lot of boxes but sailing performance is not one of them.

Sail magazine review (empty boat)

"In 10 knots of wind, we managed a respectable 8-knots-plus close reaching through a light chop and were able to maintain 6 knots of boat speed at an apparent wind angle of 45 degrees. "

 

[SASSAFRASS]

Interesting, to be honest I like sailing but it's not a huge deal for the other half, more of a means to an end. Understand any condo cat will probably be at the bottom of the performance barrel. We are usually not in a hurry and it seems very easy to manage. Our friends have a Cris White Trimaran that we really liked. About the same room as a 36-40' mono. Sails very well. Little more skill needed. They are both much better sailors than us. I can't remember how many they said were built but there are several out there. The go big or small question is always there.

 

[SemiSalt]

Vain second definition:

2. producing no result; useless.
"a vain attempt to tidy up the room"

 

[SASSAFRASS]

If true that would call into question the entire forum and possibly create some time space anomaly....

 

[MikeJohns]

So we have started looking again, as crazy as it is we might decide a 65' wood schooner is not the best fit for a couple to do extended cruising on. Our first boat was a Crealock 36' frp ketch, number two the schooner. We have met lots of people on all kinds of boats. Our big priority is always water related fun. Like to have guests and have adult kid who surfs. Both of us like to dive. The wife keeps coming back to leopard 48's we spent time around a family on one it checks alot of boxes. Alot of the Amels the same. That said you can spend a insane amount of time on yacht world looking at lots of amazing boats. We are at least ten years out from leaving again probably five from purchase. Soo in the vain of window shopping what are you after for the next boat?? Curious for what people are looking at and why. We have definite parameters that have evolved over alot of time. What is driving others in their decision process?

Looking for a new boat is half the fun ! Then it get's stressful after takeover when you find the hidden issues.

We have had 4 cruising boats, even a heavy ferro 40 footer back in the day.

I Sailed on a Cat some distance around NZ and couldn't get used to he motion or the noise or the lack of windward ability in heavier weather. That wouldn't be an issue for many areas. And you choose your cruising area to suit your boat if your sensible.

Also had a 57 foot VDS mono performance hull that did 9 knots off the wind just under a no 1 jib in the trades but rigged as a sloop it was hard to sail short handed and the gear was all highly stressed. So we chose not to sail it back to Australia from the Atlantic and sold it in the US.

Now we are firmly back to slower plodding medium heavy very robust steel ketch the same size as your schooner and of around 43 tons . The next boat will be a while away, we have no urge to change and for coastal cruising we can take a whole tribe of extended family for days and remain sane.

We looked hard at an aging Mac Gregor 65 and also a Sundeer and weren't that keen on either.

Everything is a compromise, Ideally I'd like a centerboard monohull with 5 foot draft keel up of maybe 56 feet on deck and two equal masts. But life is short and I can't justify building my dream boat.

 

[SASSAFRASS]

^ Beawolf is for sale....

My wife helped deliver the 48 leopard I mentioned earlier, she also was not a big fan of the noise and pounding but otherwise loved the space. Have some friends who are always doing Caribbean cat deliveries, sure we could jump on for a few non hurricane season runs and get a better idea.

Funny on the light multi thought they seem to necessitate better life choices..trade scuba for free diving, no more sacred beer, stop smoking, at least cigarettes etc. Probably not a bad idea. My friend Martin built a PNW design that I can't remember on a tiny budget and put lots of miles on it till it met piling on a gale. If the rabbit hole of gadgetry can be avoided there are alot of nice simple older boats out there with alot of life in them. Don't think I would ever go to with a wood or metal hull. Cold molded or glass ok. There is nothing quieter or more natural on the water than a Carvel planked hull though, if only they were easier to maintain...

 

[Bryanjb]

Buy the leopard

 

[Zonker]

We had a scuba compressor and dive gear on our 40' pretty lightweight cat. And 2-300 lbs of tools or so.

With daggerboards never any issue pointing in heavyish weather (up to 30 knots). We pointed at least as high as typical cruising monos. If the mono had jerry jugs on deck, mesh netting on the lifelines and mast steps we were 5 degrees higher.

If you are pounding - the bridgedeck is too low. Angelo's designs all seem to have too low clearance.

 

[longy]

What do you view as adequate clearance?

 

[Keith]

If you're going multihull (catamaran) look for good bridge deck clearance, one meter or more is reasonable, or you will tire of the constant slamming sound offshore, and then the splashing sound at anchor. Look for good visibility forward to the bows, for maneuvering around the docks from the steering positions.

If sailing is important to you, go dagger boards, if sailing isn't a priority, it doesn't matter.

And, remember the charter party cats with four double ensuites, 2 X 200 hp diesel's, with legs, are designed for their purpose.... charter, party.

 

[toddster]

Average small scuba compressor = 80 lbs. Plus maybe 50 lbs rig for each crew? Maybe something of an inflection point when the boat gets big enough to have a generator and enable below-decks electric compressor. But man, suits (and commensurate weights) are bulky, unless you stick to warm water.
Takes some sacrifice to squeeze into a 30’er. Eminently doable on a 40’er.

 

[Veeger]

The whole ‘sailing performance’ thing tends to fade over time. Ya get older. Ya find out that it’s just as much fun throttling back and sailing easy. The separate shower stall becomes more important. Your comforts and spares lists diminish much of that perceived performance and it’s only a small percentage difference overall. You discover that having bragging rights about how fast you made a passage really only lasts between the first half of the 4th beer and the trip to the head.

I think MikeJohns above, has it right. How do I know this? I’ve had the farrier, the cruising/liveaboard DAGGERBOARD cat, the weekender, summer vacay quasi performance daggerboard cat. I’m looking at Benée 2’s now….

 

[Mark Morwood]

I'm not a fan of Harryproas. Aside from the ugliness they never seem to work properly and I am very convinced his hull scantlings are marginal.

I've noticed before the similarity in our cruising journeys. I often find myself not bothering to post here because you've already said what I was thinking of! Unless of course it is about real boat engineering, in which case I wouldn't have had anything useful to add in the first place. You're on your own there as far as I am concerned.

I'll be the first to admit I am biased with respect to Harry Proas as I personally know and like Rob and his infectious enthusiasm. He was living 100km from us until recently and I spent some time with him, and one of my sons helped him out on building the small cargo proa prototype and then on the bigger one before it got shipped to Fiji. I would definitely put Harry Proa's in the experimental category, particularly for cruising, which I am personally fine with, but not what I would recommend for most people just wanting to get out on the water. And as for looks, I like them, but that is definitely in the eye of the beholder.

The key for me is they should offer a light, long, stable, fast, very easily driven boat with a small easily managed rig and the ability to support basic cruising amenities. I think core concept has basically remained the same for a long while but there have been significant evolutions/divergences in thinking on rudders and rigs that have not been tested in real life. What it really needs is for someone like me to get off their ass and build one of the newer designs making and forcing all the tradeoffs and decisions that happen during the build, and then take it cruising for a couple of years to test it and sort out the inevitable kinks. And prove the concept out either way - positive or negative. That doesn't quite fit with my life situation at the moment, though I think one would be great for a 2 year South Pacific jaunt from Brisbane to French Polynesia and back. There are about 3 or 4 currently in construction, but like most custom/home builds are taking longer than planned, particularly with the disruption of the last couple of years. But hopefully there will be some real world data and experience in the not too distant future.

With respect to scantlings, I don't know the answer, and am not qualified to give one, but other than a well publicised failure of a bulkhead on Aroha during a trans-Tasman crossing I haven't heard of any of them breaking in real use. And depending who you believe that was actually because the boat wasn't built to the plans. Still I know that certainly doesn't prove they would be strong enough for a Ryan style adventure! But I personally would be happy to head off world cruising in mid-latitudes in one built to the plans.

There have actually been a number of the earlier generation built, mostly with Aero Rigs, but not much public done with them except for Blind Date which seems to function very well as a day sailing platform for blind people in the Netherlands, http://harryproa.com/?cat=17. The others I know of seem to be somewhat invisible with their owners not active online or have had some pretty tragic stories like Kleen Breeze.