What's Right (or Wrong) with US Sailing?

dogwatch

Super Anarchist
17,235
1,796
South Coast, UK
The RYA accounts present an interesting contrast . The RYA basically transfers its UK Sports grants straight through to the Olympic effort and at first glance it does not seem so much more than we spent on our Olympic team this year. The larger difference is that the RYA spends around 5m on the grass roots , which is not waht I expected to find.

FWIW, the RYA is on a much sounder financial footing than either USS or World sailing, and it is not due to the lottery as I had previously been led to believe.

UK Sports itself receives funding from a mixture of lottery and taxes and its grants, which are related to medal performance, have to be spent on Olympic support. The bodies that provides grants for grassroots sports are Sport England and its sister national organisations and they also part-fund the RYA. Sport England etc are themselves part-funded through the lottery.

Inevitably not everyone agrees with everything the RYA does but I don't hear much of the general all-round moaning that emanates from AUS and USA. My personal experience of the RYA, for coaching, race officer training and for technical support for a class I used to help run, has invariably been positive.
 

pqbon

Member
405
167
Cambridge UK
Have lived in both the US and UK -- The RYA is much more involved in all aspects of boating/sailing than US Sailing.

The RYA is in someways a quazi governmental agency (like a few other charities in the UK).

The RYA cover power and sail - racing and cruising and instruction. The RYA instruction ticket is respected around the world.

They really aren't comparable. I'm slightly biased as I am much more involved in the RYA than I was in US Sailing where I paid my dues and used the rating office and my club paid their dues.
 

EYESAILOR

Super Anarchist
3,669
2,128
Ahhhh Grasshopper.......

You see, by giving 53 people a responsible position, you get a plethora of people volunteering to travel twice a year to meetings that are 3 to 4 days long. Once they were all fired, they all stopped going to the meetings and the public lost their touch with the organization.

53 Board members was a bit unwieldy and a bit dysfunctional at times, however, it did work with a lot of good results.
Ahhhhhh Padawan,

If too much focus on the titles you give, the content of the post you will miss. Call the 53 Senate or Board and call the 8 Board or Executive Committee, the result the same will be. The best of both worlds.

But, abandon democracy altogether, they did and the dark side took hold. Meister Hubbell disbanded the councils and their own committees appointed they did.. The Hubbell ordered that the jedi no longer could nominate or elect the President and the Board, so that the dark side could choose their own progeny and banish the jedi to the outer planetary systems and RSAs.......until one day, not so long long ago, a tennis player they could appoint to lead sailing to their promised land.
 

dogwatch

Super Anarchist
17,235
1,796
South Coast, UK
The RYA is in someways a quazi governmental agency (like a few other charities in the UK).

They have a delegated power to issue Department of Transport recognised Yachtmaster certificates. I'm not sure in what other sense they could be described as "quasi-governmental".
 

Dervish

Member
344
79
Boston, PRM
Then there’s the notion that one has to be lectured to about being alone behind closed doors with an underage athlete before one can be a certified race officer. And have to got through background screening.
Not a fair hit on USSA.

That’s Federal legislation (2017) and anyone associated with kids sports needs the training. I officiate Hockey and Lacrosse and have to get training and a background check. Not only that but if you coach and officiate they do the background check again.

In the DPRM Mass Hockey pays for the background check. Most other orgs do not.
 
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KnockedDown

Member
98
13
Not a fair hit on USSA.

That’s Federal legislation (2017) and anyone associated with kids sports needs the training. I officiate Hockey and Lacrosse and have to get training and a background check. Not only that but if you coach and officiate they do the background check again.

In the DPRM Mass Hockey pays for the background check. Most other orgs do not.
Granted but plenty of volunteer race officials rarely have any official dealings with the competitors let alone youth sailors. In an ideal world, USS would have been aware of the pending legislation and found a way (along with archery, fencing and lots of other amateur sports that aren't 100% olympic) to lobby for certain exceptions.
 

Monkey

Super Anarchist
11,079
2,712
US Sailing

They mail out Stickers (Plastic) and ID Cards (Plastic) as well. They also send out letters for donation requests (Paper) add the carbon footprint of the trucks delivering the letters. Not a very eco friendly organization. I remember USYRU ... you had a paper card and you better have it on you if required at registration. Heck, if you give US Sailing an extra donation you get a cool flag to fly off your boat. (non eco friendly nylon and ink )

Very hypocritical operation. Oh wait and there are cocktail parties and receptions to raise funds. I know the kids vying for spots on the teams, they see little of the funds donated. I think it would be very appropriate to publish the salaries of the top staff at US Sailing.

When you are Flag Officer at any Yacht Club you volunteer your time to better the club and the sport. Not to mention the RC and the rest of Committees and Trustees.

Local Yacht Clubs provide services for their communities and members and Jr's, mostly derived for the membership dues and private donations.

All of the athletes that I speak with express concern over the lack of funding from US Sailing. They must reach out for alternative training funding donations. It has to be said that without a very wealthy family or independent support network, your chances of an olympic medal are slim. Some have potential , the right attitude and discipline.

Without private donations they do not stand a chance. Yet they are limited to be paid for services related to the industry. Ok....cut my lawn or paint my house ...I'll give you some funds.

But you should be out practicing.
You do realize everything you posted is nonsense, right. As I said earlier, I complimented on them for moving towards electronic based I.D.s. I haven’t received an ounce of plastic from them in the mail in years. At least post facts if you’re going to whine.
 

Monkey

Super Anarchist
11,079
2,712
There are tons of volunteer roles where USS does not offer or recommend training.

But for certain key roles, training is helpful. It is not only sailing that discovered this. It ranges from setting good start lines to avoiding young kids drowning or getting chopped up by props, and not taking bribes. It also includes safesport training as gymnastics found out.

Sailing , more than many other sports, includes a lot of kids.


Okay, so now we agree that there should be a charge for the service and all we are dickering about is whether it should be $25 or $50 ?
I haven’t killed anyone yet. We go above and beyond when we run big regattas and have dedicated safety boats. It just irritates me that I’ve trained under the best in the business, but I’m not allowed to donate my time for free. U.S. Sailing should be happy to certify people like me.
 

Sailor Sam2

New member
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0
NJ Shore
Self-satisfaction can come in many ways.
During our 40 years of sailing we never joined any sailing associations and we never engaged in any club racing.
Instead we watched the races taking place from our vessel and we just went after the lead boat the last mile or two from the finish line to see if we could pass it.
The look on the captains and crews faces with their heads turning constantly back to look at us coming up on them was priceless when they saw us coming up on them and their knowing we would be passing them before the finish line. Being curteous we always got fairly close along side (100 feet) and then moved off quickly so as not to interfere with their wind. Another way we had fun sailing was to pass the fastest boat on the bay, tack around it and then pass it again. Yes indeed ball breaking can be fun, especially since we had a tall attractive blonde hair woman on the tiller who always gave them a wave and a smile as we would come along side.
 

Sailor Sam2

New member
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0
NJ Shore
As a good old school mariner during my 40+ years of sailing and power boat ownership I towed in at least 10 vessels that needed assistance and not one of them ever asked to see any sailing of boating certificates or licenses or asked about my level of skill.
I think my best one was towing in a 24 foot center console power boat about 4 miles with our 27 foot sail boat. Towing in a power boat with a sail boat is very rewarding just to see the look on the faces of the power boat owners coming out on a busy Saturday morning. Good seamanship and good mariners help each other whenever they can and never want nor accept any type of payment.
 
Oh, count me out then!
Haaa! Dervish couldn't take a bribe if he tried :)
If there is someone out there who better fits the idiom "as honest as the day is long" I have yet to meet him or her.

Thinking about it, Dervish would make a bloody amazing USS board member or President. Superb management and team building skills. Served his country. Then entrepreneur and built his own company . Passionate about the sport of sailing. Kickstarted at least two one-design-classes. Balanced, unflappable, good listener, always fair, but takes a decision, happy to take the flak if it is a wrong decision and give credit if it is the right decision (I know because I have sailed with him) but prefers to take a decision than procrastinate.

But, and it is a very a very big but, ......I doubt he would care for the bull shit and politics.

I haven't seen him in 20+ years so maybe the bullshit tolerance has increased but I doubt it.
 

bloodshot

Super Anarchist
1,612
153
United States
I haven’t killed anyone yet. We go above and beyond when we run big regattas and have dedicated safety boats. It just irritates me that I’ve trained under the best in the business, but I’m not allowed to donate my time for free. U.S. Sailing should be happy to certify people like me.
I could see a solution that if your ARO deems you worthy of recertification/renewal, then it should be just as easy as that. Taking the class every 4 years I guess isn't all that bad, but as long as your SOARs data is fulfilled, I don't see why they can't just go on that.
 

bloodshot

Super Anarchist
1,612
153
United States
Granted but plenty of volunteer race officials rarely have any official dealings with the competitors let alone youth sailors. In an ideal world, USS would have been aware of the pending legislation and found a way (along with archery, fencing and lots of other amateur sports that aren't 100% olympic) to lobby for certain exceptions.
have you taken the SafeSport certification? Its ridiculously easy to pass, and easily not on my top 5 things concerning me about US Sailing RO certification.
 
Granted but plenty of volunteer race officials rarely have any official dealings with the competitors let alone youth sailors. In an ideal world, USS would have been aware of the pending legislation and found a way (along with archery, fencing and lots of other amateur sports that aren't 100% olympic) to lobby for certain exceptions.
It just irritates me that I’ve trained under the best in the business, but I’m not allowed to donate my time for free. U.S. Sailing should be happy to certify people like me.
KD and Monkey.......you can donate your time for free.

I hope we all thank you for the time that you donate.

If you want to be certified, then like everyone else, we need to take certain courses and tests. That is what "certified" means. A sports or professional organization certifies that the individual has taken courses and tests and meets an objective standard. If you are as terrific as I am sure you are, then you will breeze through the course and test....and who knows might learn something new along the way.
It would be an absolute PITA, managing a certification process and being asked for special exceptions because someone believes they are so good that they should be given the certification without doing the course.

Surgeons who are experts in their field have to do continuing education and take tests to remain board certified.

I took the Safe Sport online course. It did not bother me in the slightest. Most of it is common sense. Most of it is not relevant to what I do.....until suddenly and unexpectedly it is. My overall impression, like others who commented here, is that I'm glad that we have to take it, and anyway, it is a federal law.

We are all wired differently . I view my volunteer activities as recreation. I don't mind paying for the courses, test etc and covering the expenses of those who volunteer to give them.
 
I could see a solution that if your ARO deems you worthy of recertification/renewal, then it should be just as easy as that.
Who wants to be the ARO making that determination? You offend those that you decline and will be accused of cronyism of those that you wave through.
Taking the class every 4 years I guess isn't all that bad, but as long as your SOARs data is fulfilled, I don't see why they can't just go on that.
I dont know how large a burden RO recertification is, but a quick refresher every 4 years seems reasonable . The rules have changed and there is always something new to be learned from other RO's experience. I see enough valid request for redress in events with experienced RCs to know that just when you think you have seen it all....along comes an interesting challenge.
 

bloodshot

Super Anarchist
1,612
153
United States
Who wants to be the ARO making that determination? You offend those that you decline and will be accused of cronyism of those that you wave through.

I dont know how large a burden RO recertification is, but a quick refresher every 4 years seems reasonable . The rules have changed and there is always something new to be learned from other RO's experience. I see enough valid request for redress in events with experienced RCs to know that just when you think you have seen it all....along comes an interesting challenge.
I'm actually totally in favor of the education side of RO certs. But I can see the argument that recertification for people like @Monkey may feel onerous when they have dozens if not hundreds of hours of RC experience per year. I'd listen to arguments that a middle ground is appropriate to gain and retain good qualified ROs.
 
I'm actually totally in favor of the education side of RO certs. But I can see the argument that recertification for people like @Monkey may feel onerous when they have dozens if not hundreds of hours of RC experience per year. I'd listen to arguments that a middle ground is appropriate to gain and retain good qualified ROs.
I understand. But would the local recertification course benefit from Monkey being there?
 


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