When Carrots Have Meanings

Pertinacious Tom

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When Carrots Have Meanings

When they're held by a fist in the 11th Circuit would be one answer.

If you saw a banner with a fist holding a carrot, would you think it was intended to convey some kind of message? I would.

So, “in determining whether conduct is expressive, we ask whether the reasonable person would interpret  it  as some sort  of  message,  not  whether  an  observer  would  necessarily  infer  a  specific message.”   Holloman,  370  F.3d  at  1270
Fort Liquordale Food Not Bombs is the lead plaintiff in the case.

 

Pertinacious Tom

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Ft. Liquordale's new mayor wants the laws targeting feeding the homeless repealed.
 

"I'm upset we spent all these resources and all this time trying to defeat the homeless," says Mayor Dean Trantalis, who took office earlier this year. "I think that the ordinance does not help the city or the homeless. I think we need to reverse the ordinance and we need to restructure our whole approach to working with this population."

Good for Trantalis. But will other cities see the light? Ft. Lauderdale's awful ban is hardly unique. Many cities around the country have (or recently had) similar bans in place, including Houston, Las Vegas, New York City, Philadelphia, Dallas, Birmingham, and San Antonio. In 2011, I wrote in support of the Orlando chapter of Food Not Bombs, who'd been arrested for sharing food with the homeless in violation of a city ordinance. I've devoted many columns to these crackdowns in the years since, and I spend several pages of my recent book, Biting the Hands that Feed Us, deriding these laws as the lowest form of regulation.

One person I quote in the book is Jay Hamburger, who's been sharing food with the needy in Houston for decades—and who's seen such activities targeted by the city's mayor, several members of the city council, and developers. "No government has a right to interfere with or intercede in my otherwise legal right to express myself through my generosity," he said.
But food safety!

It's easily achieved if there's no food.

 

Blue Crab

benthivore
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We sure need some real action on this issue. Homeless shelters in old barracks? Not for the druggies but the families and walking wounded. Pay for it with UN earmarks.

Sending money overseas with as many issues as we have at home is just wrong.

 

Pertinacious Tom

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A Woman Set Up a Little Free Pantry Without a Permit. The County Threatened Criminal Charges.
 

...

Inspired by the leftovers from a pot of chicken soup she'd made, Hay started researching ways to start a little free pantry in her Asotin County, Washington, neighborhood. In December she set one up in her backyard, replete with refrigerated food, canned goods, and produce—all available for free to those struggling to make ends meet.

Akin to little free libraries, these makeshift pantries popping up across the U.S. invite local participation, allowing passersby to donate edible goods. "The community really responded positively to it," says Hay. "It was exciting."

The excitement was short-lived. In February, the county health department dropped by to tell her and her husband that they needed to immediately desist operations, because Hay didn't have a permit. If they refused, the county threatened to pursue criminal charges. 

What's more, getting that license wouldn't be sufficient to reboot the pantry. She would have to pay a fine. She would have to cough up an annual fee. And she would have to abide by a laundry list of regulations more appropriate for a large-scale distribution center.

Among the requirements were a slew of packaging regulations. Canned items needed to have a commercial label that traversed the full circumference of the can, for instance. Fresh foods—from apples and oranges to bread—were prohibited entirely. She would need to set up a separate collection spot where she screened every item, a rule anathema to the basic concept of a little free pantry. She would have to create, print, and distribute flyers explaining what can and cannot be donated. She would need to elevate the pantry above the ground, disqualifying her cupboard setup, though the health department "wouldn't be specific about how high it needed to be," she notes.

Now the Institute for Justice has filed a civil rights lawsuit on Hay's behalf, as well as on behalf of two women who benefited from the free pantry. The suit says the county infringed on Hay's constitutional rights when it stopped her from giving away food on her own property, and it alleges that it likewise violated the two beneficiaries' constitutional right to accept private charity.

"The regulations that the County wants Kathy to follow actually hurt the people they are intended to protect," says Caroline Grace Brothers, a constitutional nutjob at the Institute for Justice. "The food in Kathy's pantry poses no more threat to its beneficiaries than the food at a roadside farm stand with an 'honor box.' Yet Kathy has to follow pages of regulations to share food in her own backyard, while produce stands are allowed to sell food without interference."

...
It's too bad that she can't find credible legal representation but I guess only nutjobs have any interest in charity.

 

Pertinacious Tom

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In other soup-related news, North Dakota Dept of Health Sued By Nutjobs
 

Today, two North Dakota women joined a lawsuit with the Institute for Justice (IJ) against the North Dakota Department of Health for defying the Legislature and illegally crippling the Cottage Food Act. Their lawsuit aims to restore the food freedom North Dakotans had from 2017 until 2020, when North Dakotans could sell virtually any homemade food or meal directly to informed consumers. The lawsuit has taken on increased importance during the COVID-19 pandemic as consumers need access to safe, fresh and convenient food sources more than ever. The lawsuit now includes five plaintiffs, who all legally sold homemade food for years under the Act and are now banned from doing so.

...

“While it was legal to sell homemade foods for three years, many North Dakotans’ way of life improved. Consumers ate fresher foods and sellers earned extra cash to support their families and farms,” IJ Senior Nutjob Erica Smith said. “Now more than ever, North Dakotans need to make money from the home. But because of the Department’s illegal rulemaking, hundreds of North Dakotans have lost a way to support their farms and families.”

...

 

Bugsy

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I spent the month of February in the USA working with a bunch of Trump supporters. 

They were adamant that Trump must win the 2020 election or the USA would be turned into a socialist country like Cuba with limited food availability and long lineups for food at stores.  I don't hear much talk about that now.  

How many Trump supporters now rely on food banks?  

 

DustyDreamer

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Please explain to me how wanting to fight against further limitations on Cottage Food laws equals nutjobbery? 

Cottage Food laws are absolutely critical if you want a robust American agriculture. Prior to these laws passing (2012 in California) if I wanted to take leftover fruit from the market and make jam to sell as a value-added product, I'd need a very expensive commercial kitchen and fuckloads of permits, special labels, etc etc. Now, I can just make it and sell it. It's a game-changer for small farms in America but big food companies, which largely control county and state health depts, absolutely hate it for what should be obvious reasons. 

 
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Blue Crab

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I spent the month of February in the USA working with a bunch of Trump supporters. 

They were adamant that Trump must win the 2020 election or the USA would be turned into a socialist country like Cuba with limited food availability and long lineups for food at stores.  I don't hear much talk about that now.  

How many Trump supporters now rely on food banks?  
I think this is another truth we can handle but won't get. 

 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
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I spent the month of February in the USA working with a bunch of Trump supporters. 

They were adamant that Trump must win the 2020 election or the USA would be turned into a socialist country like Cuba with limited food availability and long lineups for food at stores.  I don't hear much talk about that now.  

How many Trump supporters now rely on food banks?  
Hard to say "like" to this post, but yeah, that's a pretty astute comment.

 

Blue Crab

benthivore
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Hard to say "like" to this post, but yeah, that's a pretty astute comment.
I'm again reminded of the tv interviewer at one of Trump's rallies who asked some Trump T-shirted guy what it was that he thought Trump did well. 

No answer. At all. Not even. As if.

 

Pertinacious Tom

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Mismoyled Jiblet. said:
He's being sarcastic.

Tom is libertarian and believes that excessive government regulation is a bad thing. 
Unless it’s his family benefitting from the occupational licensing
I probably shouldn't ask why an anonymous shitflinger is bringing my family up again but I am curious when you think we've benefited from occupational licensing?

 

BeSafe

Super Anarchist
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I probably shouldn't ask why an anonymous shitflinger is bringing my family up again but I am curious when you think we've benefited from occupational licensing?
noooooo.jpg

:)

 
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Saorsa

Super Anarchist
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Please explain to me how wanting to fight against further limitations on Cottage Food laws equals nutjobbery? 

Cottage Food laws are absolutely critical if you want a robust American agriculture. Prior to these laws passing (2012 in California) if I wanted to take leftover fruit from the market and make jam to sell as a value-added product, I'd need a very expensive commercial kitchen and fuckloads of permits, special labels, etc etc. Now, I can just make it and sell it. It's a game-changer for small farms in America but big food companies, which largely control county and state health depts, absolutely hate it for what should be obvious reasons. 
Why don't you complain about the laws that make cottage foods impossible rather than demand more laws to permit them?

I know it's tough for folks to get past the 2nd amendment here but the 10th counts for something too.

 

DustyDreamer

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Why don't you complain about the laws that make cottage foods impossible rather than demand more laws to permit them?

I know it's tough for folks to get past the 2nd amendment here but the 10th counts for something too.
Right, that makes perfect sense! I'll try to fight a dozen or so laws rather than support a single one! But first, of course, I'll need to hire a team of lawyers and a couple of very expensive lobbyists.Maybe attend a few very expensive dinners and donate large sums to a few select candidates.

Who do you think I am, a corporation?

This is called regulatory capture, Saorsa. Who (or rather what) do you think fought for the laws around commercial kitchens and labeling such as expiration dates? As an individual, you cannot try to fight large well-heeled corporations. The best you can hope for is the scraps - ie the Cottage Food laws. And yes, these are all mostly state level.

 
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