When you get waived to cross, and then a douche protests?

TJSoCal

Super Anarchist
Assuming that he hailed protest and flew the flag right after the incident:

1. Depending on the stakes (that is, how bad is a DSQ) I might or might not do turns

2. If you've got witnesses (could be your crew) who will testify that they saw him wave you across, protest him on Rule 2 violation. If you didn't do turns, you can claim exoneration for your breaking rule 10 under 64.1a. Might not fly with the PC, but worth a try.

 
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Assuming that he hailed protest and flew the flag right after the incident:

1. Depending on the stakes (that is, how bad is a DSQ) I might or might not do turns

2. If you've got witnesses (could be your crew) who will testify that they saw him wave you across, protest him on Rule 2 violation. If you didn't do turns, you can claim exoneration for your breaking rule 10 under 64.1a. Might not fly with the PC, but worth a try.


Assuming you did not spin after he hailed protest.

You would NOT be exonerated under 64.1 a because you were not compelled to cross but if you had substantiated evidence that the helm or the person in charge on the other boat waved you across then if they filed you would have a compelling rule 2 case which should be enough to discourage them from filing. 

If they file anyway, and your evidence that they waved you across is watertight, then file your rule 2 protest and begin the meeting by RAF for the rule 10 breach and ask the committee to proceed with the rule 2 hearing. 

The focus will be entirely on their sportsmanship or lack thereof.

 
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fastyacht

Super Anarchist
12,928
2,592
  Then they slam a gas mask lee bow on you when you're on a nice lifted puff.  

  There are times when you want a port tack boat to keep going and a minor dip is no biggie.
Sometimes you can make that happen with body language.

 

Sail4beer

Super Anarchist
9,807
3,266
Toms River,NJ
Now I know how to get rid of my boat, where do sail out of?

I want to come their and wave you across then protest you
I’ll get the tannerite ready!

i got hosed at the start last night by a habitual barger. If I hadn’t restored the boat for her, I’d dream of giving it a little pyrotechnics tonight after midnight

maybe I’ll just put a little piece of squid in a hard to find location. That might get her to try to clean her boat now too

 

Parma

Super Anarchist
2,976
394
here
Assuming that he hailed protest and flew the flag right after the incident:

1. Depending on the stakes (that is, how bad is a DSQ) I might or might not do turns

2. If you've got witnesses (could be your crew) who will testify that they saw him wave you across, protest him on Rule 2 violation. If you didn't do turns, you can claim exoneration for your breaking rule 10 under 64.1a. Might not fly with the PC, but worth a try.
[SIZE=11pt]I don’t know. I mean yeah, it’s a crappy move, but I liken it to someone who’s looking for room at a mark, and a ROW skipper says “go ahead”.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]I don’t think that the ROW skipper is giving up rights, and if I foul him I might hope for mercy but not expect it. Certainly not be entitled to it.[/SIZE]

 

Major Tom

Super Anarchist
1,905
542
Darkest Africa
Whenever I am coaching kids I tell them that being on starboard puts you in the position to decide whether you ask the port boat to cross or tack, not simply to yell ‘starboard’ as that takes all your positional advantage away, the theory being that you give the port boat 2 options instead of only 1. Often ducking half a boat length to allow a port boat through only results in a quarter of a length net loss with the increase of speed during the duck, far better than being lee bowed and forced to tack off your preferred tack. I would hope that the game is played with sufficient integrity so that both parties understand the onus’s on them during the cross.

 

teamt

New member
25
4
In the heyday of Hobie racing, in a light air floater, I waived on a port tacker so I could hold speed and get to a wind line faster...  All went well until another boat protested me and the port tacker claiming he violated port-starboard, while I violated "team racing" or whatever it used to be called in the rules.  The port tacker and I were from out-of-state, while the local felt we were ganging up on him...   Sigh, the local protest committee upheld their claim.  I drank extra of their free beer after the race to get back at them.

 

Foreverslow

Super Anarchist
In the heyday of Hobie racing, in a light air floater, I waived on a port tacker so I could hold speed and get to a wind line faster...  All went well until another boat protested me and the port tacker claiming he violated port-starboard, while I violated "team racing" or whatever it used to be called in the rules.  The port tacker and I were from out-of-state, while the local felt we were ganging up on him...   Sigh, the local protest committee upheld their claim.  I drank extra of their free beer after the race to get back at them.


If in the Heyday, then you should have had gag bumper stickers at the ready like us.

Waited for the stupid sod to get into his car and talked to them while my crew slapped the DRIVER MASTURBATING sticker onto the catbox on the back of the trailer so everyone driving behind them could see it.  Stupid drunk did not even notice it for several weeks, including a trip to the West Coast..

Don't get angry, get 1 better...   ;<)

 
Whenever I am coaching kids I tell them that being on starboard puts you in the position to decide whether you ask the port boat to cross or tack, not simply to yell ‘starboard’ as that takes all your positional advantage away, the theory being that you give the port boat 2 options instead of only 1. Often ducking half a boat length to allow a port boat through only results in a quarter of a length net loss with the increase of speed during the duck, far better than being lee bowed and forced to tack off your preferred tack. I would hope that the game is played with sufficient integrity so that both parties understand the onus’s on them during the cross.
Make sure that you explain the rules to them so that they understand the implications of asking the port boat to cross

 
In the heyday of Hobie racing, in a light air floater, I waived on a port tacker so I could hold speed and get to a wind line faster...  All went well until another boat protested me and the port tacker claiming he violated port-starboard, while I violated "team racing" or whatever it used to be called in the rules.  The port tacker and I were from out-of-state, while the local felt we were ganging up on him...   Sigh, the local protest committee upheld their claim.  I drank extra of their free beer after the race to get back at them.
As I mentioned above it gets interesting if a third boat protests.

There has never been a foul called "team racing".  However Case 78 has been around for a very long time (and has been revised and expanded a couple of times)  Case 78 Answer 1 (d) makes it clear that if Boat A and Boat C collude to improve C's results then Boat A has broken rule 2 and 41 , and Boat C has broken rule 2.  The case specifically deals with tactics that where A is hindering B but it would also be applied to a situation where A deliberately allowed C to avoid a foul in order for C to obtain an advantage over B.

Simply put if the jury found as "facts found"  that the two out state hobies were in fact colluding to assist each other and disadvantage (gang up on) the local...then the out of state boats broke rule 2, 41 and 10.  

However there is a high burden of proof on the protesting boat to claim you were breaking rule 2 :  A boat may be penalized
under this rule only if it is clearly established that these principles have been violated.


So you would only have to provide a reasonably coherent explanation that your sole intention was to get to a wind line faster and the rule 2 protest against you would have been thrown out......either the PC was inexperienced or .....possibly....perhaps ....you hit the free beer before the protest meeting? :)  

 
 
Here are some guidelines if you wish to allow a starboard boat to cross and avoid being protested by a third boat:-

1. If you hail cross and clearly indicate that you want the port boat to cross. You cannot have regrets a few moments later and protest.  If the jury find that you did indeed hail the port tack boat to cross and you subsequently decide to protest when you duck, you will be disqualified or worse under rule 2.

2. Obviously do not collude with another competitor and allow them to cross just because they are a buddy. That is unfair on other competitors and unsportsmanlike and rightly will be protested.

3. If you genuinely want the competitor on port to cross.  Adjust your course in plenty of time so that he/she is crossing and respond by saying "you are crossing" .   If the third party protests, make it crystal clear that you had adjusted your course in plenty of time, that you tactically wanted to get to the left and your course was astern of the port boat, that you could sail your course and that port kept clear of you. Never waiver from repeating that you sailed your course and you did not alter course at the last minute.

Tactical tip......make damn sure that port boat has asked and confirmed they are crossing. It is damned annoying if they take advantage of your bear away to slam a faceplant tack on you.

If a boat hails "Tack or Cross" and you respond by hailing "cross" or "Crossing" and adjust your course in good time and then they tack in your face then protest them under rule 2 and rule 10 .  You will be pleasantly surprised by how a protest committee will find facts.

 
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