Who is stand-on?

Caliban64

New member
34
26
This is likely a simple one, but I am not clear, so here goes.

The other day I was on somebody else’s boat with three more experienced guys. I had the helm briefly and we were coming downwind into a harbor, heading toward a tight channel. I had the wind on the starboard quarter, not quite dead downwind, so, starboard tack. Motor was off.

A much larger sailboat to port was headed toward us on a beam reach, starboard tack. Initially they were forward of us at about 300 degrees, but it looked to us like they would just pass behind us by a whisker. It looked like they had the engine off. 

I wanted to change course and not chance it but the best way would have been to jibe soon, and then again to correct course for the channel entrance. I also thought that though we were nearly at a right angle to the other boat they were farther down wind so they were leeward. The other guys said no, we are on starboard and we are entering the harbor, so we are stand-on. I was not sure what entering the harbor had to do with it but the guy who owned the boat said hold course. So I did. The other boat passed behind us by about 15’ with the people on board yelling at us and making bad faces.

Who was right?

 
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Snaggletooth

Morrelle Compasse
32,953
5,074
Bothe on Strbd?  I thick boat runneng with the winde is easiere to manuevere so shoude stay cleare.

 

Wright Way

Member
423
208
Who was right
Get a copy of the collision regulations and read it, then give it to your owner. Google it.

If you don't know the answer to that one you both wont know much else that you should.

You and the rest of the boating public will appreciate it, otherwise you will get to be known as an asshole on the water.

 

Left Shift

Super Anarchist
10,532
3,267
Seattle
Colregs apply.

My diagram says that they were to leeward of you.  So "Big boat" is Starboard leeward and you "Little Boat" are approaching Big Boat from the "Green Quadrant" as Starboard weather.  So you have rights to SAFELY cross, but they likely have limited ability to maneuver and 15' certainly is not my definition of safe (except in J-24s).  

So...There is "right" and "dead right". 

Entering the harbor has nothing to do with it unless you were actually in the channel, then overtaking boat stays clear.  It does sound like you may have been the overtaking vessel, which flips the rights issue around if you are in the channel.  

Why is this even an issue on an afternoon sail?   Slow up and go behind.  Or jibe and jibe back. Your "more experienced" people were being pig-headed.  

 
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Caliban64

New member
34
26
Colregs apply.

My diagram says that they were to leeward of you.  So "Big boat" is Starboard leeward and you "Little Boat" are approaching Big Boat from the "Green Quadrant" as Starboard weather.  So you have rights to SAFELY cross, but they likely have limited ability to maneuver and 15' certainly is not my definition of safe (except in J-24s).  

So...There is "right" and "dead right". 

Entering the harbor has nothing to do with it unless you were actually in the channel, then overtaking boat stays clear.  It does sound like you may have been the overtaking vessel, which flips the rights issue around if you are in the channel.  

Why is this even an issue on an afternoon sail?   Slow up and go behind.  Or jibe and jibe back. Your "more experienced" people were being pig-headed.  
Thanks, it shouldn’t have been an issue. I thought he was he stand on but whether he was or not I wanted to let him pass. I thought the other boat was leeward but you could argue we were overtaking. But I wasn’t the captain and it want my boat. In the moment I was not going to get into an argument about it on the boat. He made the call, that was the call.. 

 
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Caliban64

New member
34
26
Get a copy of the collision regulations and read it, then give it to your owner. Google it.

If you don't know the answer to that one you both wont know much else that you should.

You and the rest of the boating public will appreciate it, otherwise you will get to be known as an asshole on the water.
Yeah I did read it and Google it, fuckstick, and it wasn’t clear to me. Sometimes it isn’t.  Buy hey, thanks for telling me to read the colregs and how Google works, admiral nelson.

 
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patchy

New member
17
6
[SIZE=12pt]RULE 12 Sailing Vessels[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt](a) When two sailing vessels are approaching one another, so as to involve risk of collision, one of them shall keep out of the way of the other as follows:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt](i) when each has the wind on a different side, the vessel which has the wind on the port side shall keep out of the way of the other;
(ii) when both have the wind on the same side, the vessel which is to windward shall keep out of the way of the vessel which is to leeward; (iii) if a vessel with the wind on the port side sees a vessel to windward and cannot determine with certainty whether the other vessel has the wind on the port or on the starboard side, she shall keep out of the way of the other.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt](b) For the purposes of this Rule the windward side shall be deemed to be the side opposite to that on which the mainsail is carried or, in the case of a square-rigged vessel, the side opposite to that on which the largest fore- and-aft sail is carried.[/SIZE]


 

Caliban64

New member
34
26
Yup that is what I read. So he was to leeward, he was stand on and I was correct. All the stuFf about the channel, running with the wind and overtaking is noise in this case. Hence the bad words and angry faces.

 
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Spoonie

Anarchist
742
91
Sydney
Yup that is what I read. So he was to leeward, he was stand on and I was correct. All the stuFf about the channel, running with the wind and overtaking is noise in this case. Hence the bad words and angry faces.
I dunno, it sounds like the other boat is being precious to me.   Assuming both boats are keeping a proper look out then the risk of collision should be low, unless one or boat are limited in manoeuvrability.  If you are looking out, then you have to assume the other person isn't.  
 

you're both out for a casual sail, it sounds like it would have really been no skin off the other guys nose to pinch up a bit for a ways out to make sure it was a safe crossing.   Also, they don't know if you're stuck on a particular heading so can't manoeuvre. 
 

IMHO if your are pulling the colregs out in the circumstance you described, both boats have failed basic seamanship.  The latter boat in this case has chosen to make the scenario something to be grumpy about, or they weren't keeping a look out and were surprised.

 

JimC

Not actually an anarchist.
8,159
1,036
South East England
The point about Col Regs is for both boats to know what to do. So if the stand on boat starts wandering randomly around the ocean to be nice then a simple situation can turn complicated. The other thing that's important is to make big changes of course and make them early, again do there's no doubt.

 

climenuts

Anarchist
689
277
PNW
Sounds like you were the give way vessel being to windward on the same tack but in any case the first rule is to avoid collision. Outside of a race environment there is no excuse to cross anyone's bow within 15ft like that.

The proper move would've been to make a deliberate course change so it's clear you're altering and pass astern. Passing astern you can just aim at them (assuming they're moving) and pass as close astern as you want.

 

Parma

Super Anarchist
2,976
394
here
I agree with you that they were the stand on vessel, but if they were beam reaching they could easily have just luffed behind your stern & completely avoided anything they felt uncomfortable about. Sounds like someone just wanted to feign being upset & morally indignant for their guests.

 

Snaggletooth

Morrelle Compasse
32,953
5,074
adgreeded, feigneng ist some badde shitte...................                            :)

 

Ncik

Super Anarchist
2,175
395
The proper move would've been to make a deliberate course change so it's clear you're altering and pass astern. Passing astern you can just aim at them (assuming they're moving) and pass as close astern as you want.
Unless you a stbd tack cruiser cat trying to duck a port tack race mono (that isn't keeping a proper lookout) in a Wednesday arvo fun race, in which case you're rooted no matter what.

:ph34r:

 
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