Who is stand-on?

Mid

Blues Rule
Rule 2 (Responsibility)


 



(a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these Rules or of the neglect of any precautions which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case.

(b) In construing and complying with these Rules due regard shall be had to all dangers of navigation and collision and to any special circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, which may make a departure from these Rules necessary to avoid immediate danger.

https://www.ecolregs.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&layout=item&id=45&Itemid=505&lang=en

 

Wright Way

Member
422
203
Keep reading. It's literally the next couple of sentences:
I realise that, but the next bit only comes into play once the other boat has proven to be an asshole. Probably the owner, not so much the helmsman in this case.

My statement was in response to Parma, first name possibly Rod, who claimed the rules did not say you had to stand on, clearly they do. 

They are not required to "stand on"

 

Spoonie

Anarchist
742
91
Sydney
I'm sure everybody on these forums (except maybe you) has been in a situation where they were the stand on vessel but took avoiding action because it was the intelligent thing to do.
Yup....  Always assume the other boats will do something stupid and act accordingly, Ideally well before you need to.

 

Parma

Super Anarchist
2,974
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here
I realise that, but the next bit only comes into play once the other boat has proven to be an asshole. Probably the owner, not so much the helmsman in this case.

My statement was in response to Parma, first name possibly Rod, who claimed the rules did not say you had to stand on, clearly they do. 
Remarkably similar argument style to AJ, misquoting, misdirecting and taking isolated quotes out of context.

Your statements are erroneous. Just go ahead and man up with a mea culpa.

 

TJSoCal

Super Anarchist
I realise that, but the next bit only comes into play once the other boat has proven to be an asshole. Probably the owner, not so much the helmsman in this case.

My statement was in response to Parma, first name possibly Rod, who claimed the rules did not say you had to stand on, clearly they do. 
Well OK, point taken. Clearly there are times when the stand-on vessel is required to stand on. 

Until she's not...

 Shame on Parma for citing the rest of the rule. 

 
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AJ Oliver

Super Anarchist
12,894
1,804
Sandusky Sailing Club
Have you ever considered learning to sail yourself Professor? He states that he was on starboard tack yet you claim he is on port.
He wrote that the wind was on the starboard quarter, so he either was sailing by the lee, or was actually on port tack. 

you ignorant slut

image.png

 

Parma

Super Anarchist
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394
here
Speaking of which, there was a guy in our marina who got those red & green "port" & "starboard" stickers but put them on the wrong side. Took him several months to realize his mistake.

 

Not for nothing

Super Anarchist
3,063
683
jupiter
15' that might as well been a mile, 

I was doing ALIR (Olson 30) and we were to windward  of a 34' something , they wanted us to come up , I refused , They were yelling and screaming and throw up the red flag once we passed them they came up passing my stern by inches  and ran aground hard on Shag Wong  reef off of Montauk  , I happen to running the reef within feet, local knowledge? They drop the protest flag

So they are may factors one being navigable water

 

Parma

Super Anarchist
2,974
394
here
No. You have to stand on regardless. You must hold your course no matter what because it's required.

 

Wright Way

Member
422
203
He wrote that the wind was on the starboard quarter, so he either was sailing by the lee, or was actually on port tack. 

you ignorant slut

View attachment 452287


No. You have to stand on regardless. You must hold your course no matter what because it's required.
Went to same school?

Had same mother?

One of the problems with Democracy is that these people get to make decisions that affect other people.

 

nolatom

Super Anarchist
3,565
582
New Orleans
Killick,  yours was an intelligent question from the only bright light on your boat.  The fact that you are approaching and converging on a narrower piece of water (harbor entrance or marked channel) doesnt change the windward yelds to leeward rule.  

I echo what JimC said about big course changes as a "signal" to another boat who may be in doubt or somewhat clueless.  Some times (more with power than sail) the safest way is to make a 360 round turn away from the traffic and try again.  Even though for you it wouldve meant tack and then jibe. 

You weren't sure if leeward boat was under power.  If he was, he technically should show a "day shape" meaning an inverted cone shape in the fore triangle, black in color.*

The main point here is your boat buddies were idiots on the Colregs.  Don't sail with them again if you don't have to, what other steering and sailing rules don't they understand?

*at which point everyone in this thread will burst into laughter.  No recreational sailor uses day shapes.  They interfere with a jib anyway.  

 
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Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
42,359
8,631
Eastern NC
15' that might as well been a mile, 

I was doing ALIR (Olson 30) and we were to windward  of a 34' something , they wanted us to come up , I refused , They were yelling and screaming and throw up the red flag once we passed them they came up passing my stern by inches  and ran aground hard on Shag Wong  reef off of Montauk  , I happen to running the reef within feet, local knowledge? They drop the protest flag

So they are may factors one being navigable water
Hailing for water, when you are on the edge of a shoal, used to be one of the very few mandatory hails in sailing. If you knew you were near to running aground, and refused their right-of-way, you would have been in the wrong to not hail.

I say "used to be" because the rules authorities have decided to change the rules every four years, and I am no longer interested in keeping up. But they might not have gotten around to changing this one yet, better check.

FB- Doug

 

maxstaylock

Anarchist
689
398
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/281965/msn1781.pdf

If you are the keep clear boat, you should not only keep clear, but make it obvious you are keeping clear.  

Pretending the stand on boat does not exist is not a solution, neither is blaming the stand on boat for standing on, neither is judging the stand on boat for calling the keep clear boat an ass for failing too make any effort to keep clear. 

The rules are written to prevent 2 vessels colliding when trying to avoid each other, like 2 people passing in a corridor bumping into each other when trying to avoid each other, but with supertankers. 

The rules are very simple.  

If you are in charge of a vessel at sea, you need to know and apply the rules.  

The rules allow the stand on vessel to keep clear if the keep clear vessel is failing to keep clear, but the rules don't require the stand on vessel to like the ignorant fuckwit he is having to keep clear of.

 

Not for nothing

Super Anarchist
3,063
683
jupiter
Hailing for water, when you are on the edge of a shoal, used to be one of the very few mandatory hails in sailing. If you knew you were near to running aground, and refused their right-of-way, you would have been in the wrong to not hail.

I say "used to be" because the rules authorities have decided to change the rules every four years, and I am no longer interested in keeping up. But they might not have gotten around to changing this one yet, better check.

FB- Doug
I was the one  hailing for water  , but that was a long time ago , as we were heading north with a west wind and windward boat and the reef was off our port side, of our keel ( that's how close we were), they had plenty of water to their leeward , so water wasn't an issue for them, or it wasn't an issue until they headed up , behind us and ran aground , 

hope that makes sense , wish  I could draw a picture to make it clearer 

 
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