Who is stand-on?

Caliban64

New member
34
26
He wrote that the wind was on the starboard quarter, so he either was sailing by the lee, or was actually on port tack. 

you ignorant slut

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With my level of experience I hesitate to comment, but in my mind “by the Lee” would be if I had the wind just on the starboard quarter but almost dead down wind and the sails started to back or at least flutter. I may have that wrong. 

In this case it was not that. More of a very broad reach, sails full. Starboard tack...

 
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TJSoCal

Super Anarchist
No. You have to stand on regardless. You must hold your course no matter what because it's required.
No, that’s BS. The only thing a vessel must do is look at her radar. I read it right here:

(b) Proper use shall be made of radar equipment if fitted and operational, including long-range scanning to obtain early warning of risk of collision and radar plotting or equivalent systematic observation of detected objects.
That’s it. That’s the only thing. Just read the rule, it’s obvious.

 

Parma

Super Anarchist
2,976
394
here
No, that’s BS. The only thing a vessel must do is look at her radar. I read it right here:

That’s it. That’s the only thing. Just read the rule, it’s obvious.
Nope, you're wrong-o, matey-o !

There is a new law which requires the stand on vessel to deliberately smash into the give way vessel regardless of anything else. Apparently common sense, experience, courtesy and just plain old good seamanship are now illegal. It’s all on the updated version of the test for the California boater’s card required prior to charter.

 
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Mark K

Super Anarchist
47,621
1,858
Thanks, it shouldn’t have been an issue. I thought he was he stand on but whether he was or not I wanted to let him pass. I thought the other boat was leeward but you could argue we were overtaking. But I wasn’t the captain and it want my boat. In the moment I was not going to get into an argument about it on the boat. He made the call, that was the call.. 
True, but the next time just start hailing the other boat, asking if they want to go in front or behind or whatever. It's his boat but if he didn't trust your judgement he shouldn't have put you on the stick entering a harbor.

  Pretty much everywhere except on the race-course, start with the assumption the other guy is just some guy who doesn't know shit. Common in the pleasure-boating world. Start the "conversation", and with a smile on your face and a friendly tone everything will work out.  JMHO.  

 

TJSoCal

Super Anarchist
Nope, you're wrong-o, matey-o !

There is a new law which requires the stand on vessel to deliberately smash into the give way vessel regardless of anything else. Apparently common sense, experience, courtesy and just plain old good seamanship are now illegal. It’s all on the updated version of the test for the California boater’s card required prior to charter.
Ha, fake news. Everyone knows "California" isn’t a real place. They made it up for that SNL skit.

 

Spoonie

Anarchist
742
91
Sydney
The rules are written to prevent 2 vessels colliding when trying to avoid each other, like 2 people passing in a corridor bumping into each other when trying to avoid each other, but with supertankers. 
And that's fine, but two yachts on a pleasure cruise heading in two different directions in what sounds basically like open water should never be in the position they need rules to avoid bumping in to each other. 
 

There are two fundamental principles I live by out on the water:

1) I have ultimate control of what my vessel does and does not do 

2) until proven otherwise, the other guy is an idiot, act accordingly

if you don't need to be in the same corridor then don't. If you do, make your intentions clear, loud, and early, and only assume the other guy will respond if they acknowledge.

There is nothing worse than someone who is in the "wrong" making a panic change of course at the last minute.   
 

If you are going to be an idiot, be a predictable idiot.  Better still, never put yourself in a position where you need to trust the behaviour of idiots.

 

shanghaisailor

Super Anarchist
3,072
1,250
Shanghai, China
maybe not just on the water

They are required to stand on, that's what they did

Don't get upset when someone yells at you for failing to get out of the way, its to help you learn you fucked up.

If your offended by their yelling harden up, you fucked up.

If you don't want them to do it again, get out of the way next time.
Completely agree BOI Guy

The IRPCAS are quite clear. Both vessels have an obligation to avoid a collision BUT that is best served by the stand on vessel completing their obligation to "stand on". In other words to maintain course thus avoiding confusion to the situation that already clearly confuses many sailors.

The give way vessel, in this case the vessel to windward, should give way by altering course in such a manner that it is clear to the stand on vessel that such action is being taken.

On multiple occasions I have seen 'experienced' racers sailing free screaming starboard at a close hauled yacht (or not sailing so far off the wind) also on starboard coming towards them. This even to the extent they throw up the flag and are pissed off when THEY get the penalty. Racing Rules of Sailing Rule 11 is taken almost  directly from IRPCAS Rule 12 (a) (ii)

 

TJSoCal

Super Anarchist
The IRPCAS are quite clear. Both vessels have an obligation to avoid a collision BUT that is best served by the stand on vessel completing their obligation to "stand on". In other words to maintain course thus avoiding confusion to the situation that already clearly confuses many sailors.
I kind of think of it in terms of zones. Size of the zones depends largely on the size and speed of the vessels in question.

There's a far zone where the vessels are relatively far apart (but still in sight and still able to appreciate that risk of collision exists) where I think it's OK for a stand-on vessel to make a course/speed change to put some bearing drift on the other fellow and eliminate a close-quarters situation. Of course you still need to monitor the other boat to make sure they didn't also make an alteration that put you back on CBDR.

In the middle zone, stand-on should generally stand on so that give-way can predict her movements and avoid.

In the near zone, per COLREGS 17(a)(ii), stand-on should evaluate whether give-way is or is likely to take appropriate action and, if the answer is "no", make a bold maneuver herself to reduce risk.

And in the "Oh Shit" zone where both boats must maneuver if collision is to be avoided, 17(b) kicks in and the stand-on vessel must maneuver.

 

nolatom

Super Anarchist
3,572
586
New Orleans
A slightly off-topic tidbit.  In fog or other restricted vis, the normal rules (stbd over port, leeward over windward, sail over power) no longer apply.  It's all Rule 19, no one has the right of way, all must stop or proceed with caution.  Yes, we tend to use those other rules as a guide in avoiding each other, but there's no stand-on or give-way vessel. any more, at least in a legal sense.

Racers may collectively decide in the sailing instruction to use those rules regarding fellow racers, if I recall it right.  

 
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shanghaisailor

Super Anarchist
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Shanghai, China
A slightly off-topic tidbit.  In fog or other restricted vis, the normal rules (stbd over port, leeward over windward, sail over power) no longer apply.  It's all Rule 19, no one has the right of way, all must stop or proceed with caution.  Yes, we tend to use those other rules as a guide in avoiding each other, but there's no stand-on or give-way vessel. any more, at least in a legal sense.

Racers may collectively decide in the sailing instruction to use those rules regarding fellow racers, if I recall it right.  
Actually in IRPCAS no one ever has the absolute "Right of Way" as I understand it.

The  two definitions are "Stand On" & "Give Way"

 
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