Who know more about the Aeolos P30?

Matagi

Ambassador of the Republic of R'lyeh
For comparison, the new Farr X2 is also well advanced.

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VeloceSailing

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Sweden
For comparison, the new Farr X2 is also well advanced.

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The P30 is some 900kg lighter for the same size and price. That's more than 35% of the X2. Quite an achievement, I'd say.

Not to mention the e-engine or outboard plug without need for saildrive.

Farr's hulls are however a guarantee. Really looking forward to see how the Aeolos'hull performs in different conditions.

 

Hans Genthe

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Dubai
The P30 is some 900kg lighter for the same size and price. That's more than 35% of the X2. Quite an achievement, I'd say.

Not to mention the e-engine or outboard plug without need for saildrive.

Farr's hulls are however a guarantee. Really looking forward to see how the Aeolos'hull performs in different conditions.
Same prize? What is the price for the X2?

 

Snowden

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The P30 is some 900kg lighter for the same size and price. That's more than 35% of the X2. Quite an achievement, I'd say.
The X2 is OSR Cat 2 compliant though, so not a fair comparison. There is no shortage of coastal 30'ers that weigh <2 tons if that's what you want.

 
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Hans Genthe

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The X2 is OSR Cat 2 compliant though, so not a fair comparison. There is no shortage of coastal 30'ers that weigh <2 tons if that's what you want.
The AEOLOS P30 fits Cat 2 concerning shape/design of cockpit and hatches, strength of construction and details like stanchion design or foot rails.
That means, the boat can be updated with the neccessary equipment. Our danish dealer is working on that list.
To calculate the Stix we need the full equipment list for Cat 2, which we never have done until now, we had no client request for that. Last week we got the first serious request, so we will make a calculation. With a ballast ratio of 52% it should be no problem, perhaps we need to add some inboard ballast (like a diesel engine? - I hate the thought).

 
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Snowden

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The AEOLOS P30 fits Cat 2 concerning shape/design of cockpit and hatches, strength of construction and details like stanchion design or foot rails. That means, the boat can be updated with the neccessary equipment.
Getting stability certification will be key & it's not just STIX of 32+. Older versions of ISO 12217-2 prescribed a minimum sailing weight (in the AVS calculation) for Category A of 3,000 kg although that seems to have been superseded by a minimum righting energy calculation.

My armchair naval architecture expertise (similar to my infectious diseases and Eastern European land war expertise) doesn't allow me to say whether EGZ ≥ 172 000 kg·m·deg is feasible for a <2,000 kg 30 footer but I am SUPER interested to see where you come out.

 
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Matagi

Ambassador of the Republic of R'lyeh
Getting stability certification will be key & it's not just STIX of 32+. Older versions of ISO 12217-2 prescribed a minimum sailing weight (in the AVS calculation) for Category A of 3,000 kg although that seems to have been superseded by a minimum righting energy calculation.

My armchair naval architecture expertise (similar to my infectious diseases and Eastern European land war expertise) doesn't allow me to say whether EGZ ≥ 172 000 kg·m·deg is feasible for a <2,000 kg 30 footer but I am SUPER interested to see where you come out.
Wasn't there talk of a J/88 being entered into the last Fastnet race? That was a placeholder, if I recall correctly, but still it seemed to have passed the 'documentation threshold' for being eligible? The Impala 28 OOD might also be able, and the Corby 29?

 

JL92S

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Wasn't there talk of a J/88 being entered into the last Fastnet race? That was a placeholder, if I recall correctly, but still it seemed to have passed the 'documentation threshold' for being eligible? The Impala 28 OOD might also be able, and the Corby 29?
There was a J88 entered by someone who had ordered a brand new SF3600, I believe the J88 was only used to secure an entry.

 

Snowden

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Impala 28 OOD
Pre-95 boats are grandfathered on various criteria so you do see small older stuff (eg 1/2 tonners, Contessa 32), not sure about an Impala though.

Weighs a lot - IRC displacement / length ratio is around 210 versus a J/92S at c. 180 or a J/88 at c. 145 which I think implies an IRC certificate weight of around 3.3 tons.

When I crunched the 2018 IRC database a few years ago there are only very few boats that are Cat A, STIX 32+ and light displacement. These are Joe 90 (the modded J/90 with a lot more ballast than standard) and a couple of Pogo 8.50s in the 2.8 ton range. If you go bigger you get May Contain Nuts (Mount Gay 30) and Bespoke (Humphreys 30) around 3 tons. There's not much more until you go up again to Sun Fast 3200s.

The reason I spend so much time thinking about this stuff is that in the long term I'd love to get my boat (1997 / 9.2 m / 2.75 tons / 1 ton ballast) its Cat A ticket.

 

Hans Genthe

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Pre-95 boats are grandfathered on various criteria so you do see small older stuff (eg 1/2 tonners, Contessa 32), not sure about an Impala though.

Weighs a lot - IRC displacement / length ratio is around 210 versus a J/92S at c. 180 or a J/88 at c. 145 which I think implies an IRC certificate weight of around 3.3 tons.

When I crunched the 2018 IRC database a few years ago there are only very few boats that are Cat A, STIX 32+ and light displacement. These are Joe 90 (the modded J/90 with a lot more ballast than standard) and a couple of Pogo 8.50s in the 2.8 ton range. If you go bigger you get May Contain Nuts (Mount Gay 30) and Bespoke (Humphreys 30) around 3 tons. There's not much more until you go up again to Sun Fast 3200s.

The reason I spend so much time thinking about this stuff is that in the long term I'd love to get my boat (1997 / 9.2 m / 2.75 tons / 1 ton ballast) its Cat A ticket.
The AEOLOS P30 is designed for short to medium distance racing under ORC for the north European Market. For this conditions it is a weapon for sure. And it is fast, inexpensive and provides huge sailing fun ... perfect for a one design.
A boat can´t be optimal for all conditions, especially IRC AND ORC. We found out, that with 500kg keel weight and 300kg inboard ballast the AEOLOS P30 is far better under IRC ... I hate making a boat less good for shitty designed rules. 
We have a client request who want to have his boat for Cat A, now we do all the necessary calculations to help him to fit the boat in the rules. Our engineers/specialists/partners at I-Yachts are working on this, it is a very experienced yacht certification office.

 
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Matagi

Ambassador of the Republic of R'lyeh
Pre-95 boats are grandfathered on various criteria so you do see small older stuff (eg 1/2 tonners, Contessa 32), not sure about an Impala though.

Weighs a lot - IRC displacement / length ratio is around 210 versus a J/92S at c. 180 or a J/88 at c. 145 which I think implies an IRC certificate weight of around 3.3 tons.

When I crunched the 2018 IRC database a few years ago there are only very few boats that are Cat A, STIX 32+ and light displacement. These are Joe 90 (the modded J/90 with a lot more ballast than standard) and a couple of Pogo 8.50s in the 2.8 ton range. If you go bigger you get May Contain Nuts (Mount Gay 30) and Bespoke (Humphreys 30) around 3 tons. There's not much more until you go up again to Sun Fast 3200s.

The reason I spend so much time thinking about this stuff is that in the long term I'd love to get my boat (1997 / 9.2 m / 2.75 tons / 1 ton ballast) its Cat A ticket.
If we take it to the extremes, there is the Lutra 30, a bit dated, rare design. Weight is about 1800 kg, STIX per ORC certificate around 125. Might be a contender. 

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Or the JS 9000 

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This one weighs around 750 kg (500 kg in the bulb) with an AVS of around 160 (!) degrees.

Of course, a host of other factors apart from stability come into play here, preventing yourself from madness like entering this one into the Fastnet.

But the JS9000 in a Silverrudder? Hard to think of a better option. Also hard to come by, though. 

 
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Snowden

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Lutra 30, a bit dated, rare design. Weight is about 1800 kg, STIX per ORC certificate around 125.
There's one in the UK (Jester) - no ISO Category or STIX recorded under IRC but an SSS value of 16 (OSR Cat 2 requires at least 28 for grandfathered boats), so feels pretty far off.

JS 9000. This one weighs around 750 kg (500 kg in the bulb) with an AVS of around 160 (!) degrees.
Not something I'd want to do a Fastnet on! You need an inboard engine for OSR Cat 2 anyway.

 




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