Who really believes tariffs are good business

shaggybaxter

shaggybaxter

Super Anarchist
4,538
2,583
Australia
Whilst Trump plays tiddlywinks with global trade, lumping American allies and competitors for the top dog crown all in one basket, at least he’s uniting the rest of the world and giving them a common goal. 

The revised PTPP, renamed as the CPTPP, is bubbling along nicely. Not only that, the RCEP is becoming an even more serious power bloc too, albeit with tougher challenges.

What’s noticeable is the commitment to trading borders remain open and more determined than ever, but specifically not to the US if Trump continues his isolationist approach. Short summation below:

Conclusion of CPTPP does not deliver the big strategic goal of keeping the US entrenched in Asia. However, it still sends to Mr Trump a message on the region's commitment to openness. Holding the line and pushing back against growing protectionist sentiment keeps up the pressure. It could add momentum for broader liberalisation in Asia by facilitating expansion of membership and by lifting the ambition in the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP), an agreement being negotiated by the 10 ASEAN members as well as Australia, China, India, Japan, New Zealand and South Korea.
 

RCEP includes some of the largest and most dynamic economies in the world and is important enough to make a difference globally. An Australian Productivity Commission study estimates that even if tariffs were raised 15 percentage points globally (similar to what happened in the Great Depression), RCEP countries could all continue economic expansion if they abolished tariffs as a group. The gains for RCEP countries would be even larger with behind-the-border reforms.

Australia has a trade deficit on trade to the US by almost double, and have been told we are not exempt from the Trump steel and alloy tariffs. Talk about pushing away your trading partners.

Actions have consequences. It’s a shame Trump’s just too thick to think more than one sound bite ahead. 

 
F

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
10,444
3,512
Tasmania, Australia
I've been running this argument in another forum.

One of the few really, really good things Trump has done since his election is kill off participation in the TPP.

Unfortunately for the USA, the good bit is for *us*, not you. I think it really funny that the reason he pulled out was not because we were getting screwed by the USA, but we weren't being screwed *enough*.

FKT

 
slug zitski

slug zitski

Super Anarchist
7,112
1,471
worldwide
shaggybaxter said:
Whilst Trump plays tiddlywinks with global trade, lumping American allies and competitors for the top dog crown all in one basket, at least he’s uniting the rest of the world and giving them a common goal. 

The revised PTPP, renamed as the CPTPP, is bubbling along nicely. Not only that, the RCEP is becoming an even more serious power bloc too, albeit with tougher challenges.

What’s noticeable is the commitment to trading borders remain open and more determined than ever, but specifically not to the US if Trump continues his isolationist approach. Short summation below:

Conclusion of CPTPP does not deliver the big strategic goal of keeping the US entrenched in Asia. However, it still sends to Mr Trump a message on the region's commitment to openness. Holding the line and pushing back against growing protectionist sentiment keeps up the pressure. It could add momentum for broader liberalisation in Asia by facilitating expansion of membership and by lifting the ambition in the Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP), an agreement being negotiated by the 10 ASEAN members as well as Australia, China, India, Japan, New Zealand and South Korea.
 

RCEP includes some of the largest and most dynamic economies in the world and is important enough to make a difference globally. An Australian Productivity Commission study estimates that even if tariffs were raised 15 percentage points globally (similar to what happened in the Great Depression), RCEP countries could all continue economic expansion if they abolished tariffs as a group. The gains for RCEP countries would be even larger with behind-the-border reforms.

Australia has a trade deficit on trade to the US by almost double, and have been told we are not exempt from the Trump steel and alloy tariffs. Talk about pushing away your trading partners.

Actions have consequences. It’s a shame Trump’s just too thick to think more than one sound bite ahead. 
Click to expand...
Tariffs ?  

Everyone loves them... think of the difficulty the UK,  Brexit , is having gaining tRiff free  access to European market 

think of Germany .

Imported American manufactured cars face a 10 percent import duty

In the US , imported German cars face a 2.5 percent tariff.

this tariff  is the reason why Ford manufactures the Fiesta, its best selling car , in Mexico 

Mexico has tariff free trade with The eu. 

America has the most open market, lowest tariffs in the world.  America needs no lectures from foreigners.

time for change.  Too many american  jobs have been lost 

our trade partners can lower thier tariffs..

or America can raise hers...

hit them hard.... 

 
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B

BeSafe

Super Anarchist
8,121
1,363
Tariffs aren't a very good idea but like war, every now and then people need to be reminded why they generally suck.

Slug is broadly correct that American been far more accommodating than our partners in general.  That being said, WHY we were so accommodating is because, frankly, we could afford it.  We were powerful, had a huge engine of growth, were cranking out goods and services that were in high demand everywhere.

What we got in return was the tacit acknowledgement that our debt - the 10 year T-Bill - was the single most important piece of collateral on the planet.  More valuable that even land since it couldn't be seized and could be traded freely, even with our enemies.  When the shit hit the fan, the T-Bill was the final bulwark against economic collapse.  And it has held - 2008 proved that.  When everything else was suspect, we stepped in and said 'we got this' and cranked out 4 TRILLION dollars in debt and swapped it for shit paper all around the world - enough collateral to drive off even the most determined vultures - and the world nodded and said 'that'll do pig, that'll do'.

The return to tariffs is a admission of weakness.  Its an admission that our products aren't that much better than the competition, if at all - but people knew that.  The return to tarrifs is an admission that our brand isn't that much better either.  That's new.  ts a sign that the most powerful economic engine of the 20th century is running out of gas and we're struggling to agree on where to pull over and refill.

 
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slug zitski

slug zitski

Super Anarchist
7,112
1,471
worldwide
The rest of our trade partners need to get onboard , reduce tariffs , trade barriers and play by the rules ....  Stop playing games

Issues like dumped Chinese alumium and steel have polluted the whole system.

this nonsense has been going on for years 

the good news about Trumps tariff stance is that it may force reform  of the whole trade system 

IMG_8229.PNG

 
Laker

Laker

Super Anarchist
4,208
283
PNW
slug zitski said:
Tariffs ?  

Everyone loves them... think of the difficulty the UK,  Brexit , is having gaining tRiff free  access to European market 

think of Germany .

Imported American manufactured cars face a 10 percent import duty

In the US , imported German cars face a 2.5 percent tariff.

this tariff  is the reason why Ford manufactures the Fiesta, its best selling car , in Mexico 

Mexico has tariff free trade with The eu. 

America has the most open market, lowest tariffs in the world.  America needs no lectures from foreigners.

time for change.  Too many american  jobs have been lost 

our trade partners can lower thier tariffs..

or America can raise hers...

hit them hard.... 
Click to expand...
You may wish to look at your statement "America has the most open market, lowest tariffs in the world".  We are infamous, for instance, on professional licencing in both extent and degree of exclusion, much to our detriment.  

 
Laker

Laker

Super Anarchist
4,208
283
PNW
cmilliken said:
Tariffs aren't a very good idea but like war, every now and then people need to be reminded why they generally suck.

Slug is broadly correct that American been far more accommodating than our partners in general.  That being said, WHY we were so accommodating is because, frankly, we could afford it.  We were powerful, had a huge engine of growth, were cranking out goods and services that were in high demand everywhere.

What we got in return was the tacit acknowledgement that our debt - the 10 year T-Bill - was the single most important piece of collateral on the planet.  More valuable that even land since it couldn't be seized and could be traded freely, even with our enemies.  When the shit hit the fan, the T-Bill was the final bulwark against economic collapse.  And it has held - 2008 proved that.  When everything else was suspect, we stepped in and said 'we got this' and cranked out 4 TRILLION dollars in debt and swapped it for shit paper all around the world - enough collateral to drive off even the most determined vultures - and the world nodded and said 'that'll do pig, that'll do'.

The return to tariffs is a admission of weakness.  Its an admission that our products aren't that much better than the competition, if at all - but people knew that.  The return to tarrifs is an admission that our brand isn't that much better either.  That's new.  ts a sign that the most powerful economic engine of the 20th century is running out of gas and we're struggling to agree on where to pull over and refill.
Click to expand...
back you up on that one.  It has been a long time since Bretton Woods

 
slug zitski

slug zitski

Super Anarchist
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worldwide
Laker said:
You may wish to look at your statement "America has the most open market, lowest tariffs in the world".  We are infamous, for instance, on professional licencing in both extent and degree of exclusion, much to our detriment.  
Click to expand...
 Americas Average import tariff is 3 percent 

in the EU the average import tariff  14 percent 

the EU levies a 350 percent tariff on american tobacco

the eu levies a 140 percent tariff on American peanuts 

the Eu levies a 10 percent tariff on American cars 

If you would like I can go on and on ...country by country ..and prove that the US has the lowest average trade tariff in the world 

 
slug zitski

slug zitski

Super Anarchist
7,112
1,471
worldwide
Hard On The Wind

Hard On The Wind

Super Anarchist
7,541
372
GMT-8
Import tariffs protect workers.  Protecting workers is not high on the list of priorities for those who fund congressional and presidential elections. Fucking workers out of money and benefits on that list. 

 
I

Irish River

Super Anarchist
1,203
131
BC
Canada buys more steel from the US than Canada exports. I'm sure if Canada retaliates on steel tariffs Canada can get the money back. But at what cost? On both sides of the border people will pay more for a car, a house, etc. The only people this hurts are the little guy, who also will be hurt by a recession most.  

If the world wishes to deter American tariffs, the world should stop buying American debt.  The purchase if Tbills and bonds will hit the US government. 

 
slug zitski

slug zitski

Super Anarchist
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worldwide
Irish River said:
Canada buys more steel from the US than Canada exports. I'm sure if Canada retaliates on steel tariffs Canada can get the money back. But at what cost? On both sides of the border people will pay more for a car, a house, etc. The only people this hurts are the little guy, who also will be hurt by a recession most.  

If the world wishes to deter American tariffs, the world should stop buying American debt.  The purchase if Tbills and bonds will hit the US government. 
Click to expand...
They can try and stop buying T bills.

it wont end well for them 

IMG_8236.PNG

 
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slug zitski

slug zitski

Super Anarchist
7,112
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worldwide
 When comparing tariff rates , I suggest you review the " economic complexity  index " and avoid using shopping mall city states , gambling casinos. and tax havens as examples 

IMG_8233.PNG

 
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VhmSays

VhmSays

Supreme Anarchist
1,681
368
Didn't know Australia was one of those but I guess your facts can be whatever you want them to be, just add in a few more qualifiers to "prove" it.  :lol:

 
G

Guest

Guest
Whats the tariff on drone assassinations and military adventures these days?

 
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