Who really believes tariffs are good business

SloopJonB

Super Anarchist
66,072
11,022
Great Wet North
BillDBastard said:
So if you please, do not consider me like the rest of you partisan hacks in here. You all are the problem, both sides of the aisle. And until you all stop pointing at the other side and declaring them the root of all evil, nothing will change.
Pretty hard for me to be partisan in a foreign country.

And just by the way - we and many other countries manage to do a lot better than you at these things so maybe, just maybe our "partisan hack" comments have some validity.

But of course, nowhere is like the USA is it?

 

Laker

Super Anarchist
4,158
259
PNW
BillDBastard said:
Kindly name one.
Softwood lumber, especially yellow cedar and other high quality wood used in non-US markets.  UK and Russia for hardwoods.  The technology and business processes are so more advanced than the US. The business processes stand in the way of acquiring the advanced technology.  In other words, the privately held forests in the US southeast are holding the US industries back.  Nothing to do with subsidies, just a better way of doing business.

 
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mikewof

mikewof
44,280
1,027
BillDBastard said:
Kindly name one.
I can think of four ...

1. Advanced and designer polymers

2. Virtual water

3. Healthcare Infotech

4. Indoor agriculture

I can't include Cleantech like others would, because the dirty secret of Canadian industry is that they often dump their debris south of their border, the same way the USA dumps our debris south of our border.

 

mikewof

mikewof
44,280
1,027
Mismoyled Jiblet. said:
I love Cliff doing econ theory.
And yet, oddly enough, CSIRO does exactly what I describe. Thus you amusingly can't tell the difference between "econ theory" and actual policy of your own country. 

 
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mikewof

mikewof
44,280
1,027
Mismoyled Jiblet. said:
last I checked I've a yank passport and live in Trumplandia, but whatever bullshit you need cliff.
Ah, apologies, then I guess that explains why you assume that CSIRO actual policy is "econ theory."

 
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SloopJonB

Super Anarchist
66,072
11,022
Great Wet North
BillDBastard said:
Kindly name one.
Name one what?

You were talking about partisan animosity and that is what I responded to. We (and others) don't have it like you do.

And we don't elect creatures like Trump. Well, the Italians did elect Berlusconi but then they are Italian.

And we don't have a politicized Supreme Court.

And......

 

Ishmael

Resting Bitch Face
49,764
10,449
Fuctifino
I can think of four ...

1. Advanced and designer polymers

2. Virtual water

3. Healthcare Infotech

4. Indoor agriculture

I can't include Cleantech like others would, because the dirty secret of Canadian industry is that they often dump their debris south of their border, the same way the USA dumps our debris south of our border.
It was the only way to get rid of Malarkey.

 

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
9,665
3,042
Tasmania, Australia
First, I'm not clear on why you don't consider REEs a commodity ... The sources aren't limited, every region in the world that I know has lots of them, because there are so many different kinds. We have plenty of them in the USA, as do you in Oz. The reason so few countries produce them is because China is selling them cheap, and also because it's incredibly difficult to extract them since they don't vein in epithermal vents like gold, copper and silver. It's even more expensive to extract them from all that ore in a clean way, which even China doesn't bother doing.
In theory they're a commodity because they're everywhere in the environment.

In practice, *at this point in time* they are *not* a commodity because of restricted sources of supply and volumes.

Probably like aluminium prior to the 20th Century.

Now if 10 (picking a number) suppliers in different countries were offering rare earths, I'd say they were now a commodity.

FKT

 

mikewof

mikewof
44,280
1,027
In theory they're a commodity because they're everywhere in the environment.

In practice, *at this point in time* they are *not* a commodity because of restricted sources of supply and volumes.

Probably like aluminium prior to the 20th Century.

Now if 10 (picking a number) suppliers in different countries were offering rare earths, I'd say they were now a commodity.

FKT
The number is 10 to define a commodity? Seems arbitrary, but okay, I guess there about about 6 or 7 REE producing countries at the moment, less than 10, not a commodity?

So then Titanium is not a commodity either? Since -- as far as I know -- there are even fewer countries that can fully refine titanium than REEs. Titanium, not a commodity.

I think of a commodity as something that can be bought and sold. Seems simpler.

 
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G

Guest

Guest

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
9,665
3,042
Tasmania, Australia
Yep, they've been pulling this shit for decades now.  Its the only way they've become a major economy is because they cheated and copied their way there.
That's true - the bit you elide over is, they did it with the full assistance of the US corporations who wanted to boost their profit margins by dumping expensive workers and safety/environmental laws.

FKT

 
G

Guest

Guest
Yep, they've been pulling this shit for decades now.  Its the only way they've become a major economy is because they cheated and copied their way there.
That's true - the bit you elide over is, they did it with the full assistance of the US corporations who wanted to boost their profit margins by dumping expensive workers and safety/environmental laws.

FKT
Ish.  Maybe early on, but when it became apparent Jhyna was stealing IP or forcing US companies to turn over IP and then they would blatantly copy it, and sell it and drive the original IP holder out of business - I think the practice was more frowned upon.

 

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
9,665
3,042
Tasmania, Australia
Ish.  Maybe early on, but when it became apparent Jhyna was stealing IP or forcing US companies to turn over IP and then they would blatantly copy it, and sell it and drive the original IP holder out of business - I think the practice was more frowned upon.
Still doing business there, though.

Be better off using Mexico as the cheap labour source.

I kind of admire China for the way they basically screwed over those multinationals who thought they were going to exploit a bunch of ignorant peasants and make even bigger profits. OK, what China did in forcing domestic partners and stealing IP was pretty rank (it still is pretty rank). Nobody made the corporations agree though. Turns out they weren't so smart after all and a focus on short-term P&L doesn't work out that great when dealing with a *big* country that can take a longer view.

I still don't like China's practices, though, but I do admire their rat-cunning.

FKT

 

BeSafe

Super Anarchist
7,849
1,191
First, I'm not clear on why you don't consider REEs a commodity ... The sources aren't limited, every region in the world that I know has lots of them, because there are so many different kinds. We have plenty of them in the USA, as do you in Oz. The reason so few countries produce them is because China is selling them cheap, and also because it's incredibly difficult to extract them since they don't vein in epithermal vents like gold, copper and silver.
This is truth.  Rare earths aren't rare.  At all.  Extracting and refining them is heavily polluting because of the chemicals used.  That's generically true because the rare earths themselves are so chemically similar, it takes a lot of work to separate them.

The global supply chain basically involves China roughing out a bunch of ore and then selling it to refiners around the world who clean up the purity.  If you're Rhone-Poulenc, it's cheaper to buy the 98% CeO2 chinese powder and turn in into 99.999% optical grade and sell it than run some factory in the DRC.

Outsourcing pollution and all that stuff we don't like to talk about.

 
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