Who really believes tariffs are good business

slug zitski

Super Anarchist
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Trump's right when he says that the US has been taken advantage of, the Tariff approach is akin to performing heart surgery with a splitting maul.   If he had an ounce of foresight, he'd engage the WTO and propose a multi-lateral approach to dealing with China's dumping, not try to apply the blunt hammer of tariffs. 
Trade flows...globalization ...have  not benefitted US  manufacturing 

the world uses the US as consumer of choice , then  protects thier own internal markets with tariffs.

the Germans export one million cars a year to the US , at very very low import tariff, but protect the European Market with  high tariffs , equal to the profit on an American car , to prevent American cars from gaining market share .

im glad that Trump is confronting this issue.

 

A guy in the Chesapeake

Super Anarchist
23,965
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Virginia
Trade flows...globalization ...have  not benefitted US  manufacturing 

the world uses the US as consumer of choice , then  protects thier own internal markets with tariffs.

the Germans export one million cars a year to the US , at very very low import tariff, but protect the European Market with  high tariffs , equal to the profit on an American car , to prevent American cars from gaining market share .

im glad that Trump is confronting this issue.
A guy with a toothache wants the tooth gone - but, he doesn't want to take off his head in doing so. 

 

slug zitski

Super Anarchist
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worldwide
At present the US economy and its banks are very strong .

now is the time to play hardball.

europe, canada, , China, Mexico  ....either they come to the table or they get hit hard 

150 percent import tarif on peanuts

250 percent i port tariff on virgi ia tobacco 

the  negotiating  list is very long 

Volkswagen just opened an engine factory in Mexico...not because of cheap labour...but tariffs

IMG_8244.PNG

 

Dog

Super Anarchist
37,940
442
Are Trump's Tariffs really only a bargaining chips?

"President Donald Trump has turned his steel tariffs from a tool for protecting national security into a bargaining chip offered to Canada and Mexico to seal a quick deal on Nafta".

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-06/steel-tariffs-transform-into-nafta-chip-as-trump-plays-dealmaker
Canada and Mexico have already negotiated out of the tariffs.

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - All countries affected by proposed U.S. tariffs on steel and aluminum have been invited to negotiate exclusions from the measures, which will take effect within 15 days after U.S. President Donald Trump signs proclamations on Thursday, the Associated Press reported".

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-tariffs-exclusions/all-countries-hit-by-us-metals-tariffs-can-negotiate-exclusions-ap-report-idUSKCN1GK2VA

 
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Laker

Super Anarchist
4,202
277
PNW
I have an issue also with why he had a problem with the trade deficit.  Negative trade deficits are usually taken care of by a strengthened currency.  If you have a large trade deficit, you are paying for them with US dollars.  This is an indication of the strength of the US dollar.  If you want a positive trade deficit, just artificially drop the value of the dollar.  But you don't want to do that.  

 

SloopJonB

Super Anarchist
68,827
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Trump's right when he says that the US has been taken advantage of, the Tariff approach is akin to performing heart surgery with a splitting maul.   If he had an ounce of foresight, he'd engage the WTO and propose a multi-lateral approach to dealing with China's dumping, not try to apply the blunt hammer of tariffs. 
The USA has repeatedly demonstrated that it has little respect for the WTO.

For decades American lumber producers have been getting softwood lumber tariffs applied to Canadian lumber using lies and false pretenses. Every time it has gone to the WTO and every time they have lost. The tariffs come off and then after a short time they do it again. I have seen it several times since the early 80's - in fact I think it's currently going on once again.

The USA is and always has been an economic bully while boo hooing about how badly everyone treats it. It's always worst when the right wingers are in power due to their utter ignorance of facts and reality.

 

A guy in the Chesapeake

Super Anarchist
23,965
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The USA has repeatedly demonstrated that it has little respect for the WTO.

For decades American lumber producers have been getting softwood lumber tariffs applied to Canadian lumber using lies and false pretenses. Every time it has gone to the WTO and every time they have lost. The tariffs come off and then after a short time they do it again. I have seen it several times since the early 80's - in fact I think it's currently going on once again.

The USA is and always has been an economic bully while boo hooing about how badly everyone treats it. It's always worst when the right wingers are in power due to their utter ignorance of facts and reality.
So - how does your supposition counter what I think should happen in this instance? 

Tell me what lies you think support the tariffs against canadian softwood?   

 

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
10,130
3,276
Tasmania, Australia
Trade flows...globalization ...have  not benefitted US  manufacturing 

the world uses the US as consumer of choice , then  protects thier own internal markets with tariffs.

the Germans export one million cars a year to the US , at very very low import tariff, but protect the European Market with  high tariffs , equal to the profit on an American car , to prevent American cars from gaining market share .

im glad that Trump is confronting this issue.
Been through this on another forum.

I can't be arsed checking your tariff figures but it makes little difference - the POS cars your domestic manufacturers make wouldn't sell in big numbers in Europe anyway because they use too much fuel and they're too bloody big for the narrow roads etc.

Same down here even ignoring the left hand drive issue.

As for other manufacturing, the USA sold itself out so there's no point blaming China. Once you guys made the *best* gear at competitive prices. Now you import shit from China, mark it up to a little less than domestic manufacture, drive the quality locals out of business and then import more shit.

I have a 120A 415V 3 phase plasma cutter I bought, made in China, for $600 AUD. Are they dumping them at that price, or is that the price that gives them a modest but not outrageous profit? The equivalent USA made machine costs more than 5X as much. Yes, it actually is a better machine, but it's not 5X better in any way. Mine makes clean cuts in 32mm steel (thickest I've tried it on) just fine. And that's just one of the Chinese tools I have - I also have a big MIG welder, a TIG welder and a lot of machine tool accessories.

I could go on and on but there's no point because people like you simply don't want to hear it. You want to sit fat & happy inside a tariff wall and sell only to your domestic market? Do it. I think you'll find that your exports fall even further as you get more expensive & less competitive.

FKT

 

SloopJonB

Super Anarchist
68,827
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Great Wet North
So - how does your supposition counter what I think should happen in this instance? 

Tell me what lies you think support the tariffs against canadian softwood?  
The fundamental one is that the Canadian forest industry is subsidized by the government.

Repeatedly proven to be a lie with zero foundation - a Trumpian level lie - at the WTO but it sits for a while and then starts again.

 

A guy in the Chesapeake

Super Anarchist
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The fundamental one is that the Canadian forest industry is subsidized by the government.

Repeatedly proven to be a lie with zero foundation - a Trumpian level lie - at the WTO but it sits for a while and then starts again.
This isn't something that I'm at all familiar with - I'll go do some reading.   

 

2slow

Super Anarchist
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125
Georgia
Elon Musk tweeted Trump asking his opinion about Chinese tariffs on US made cars of 25% vs our tariff on Chinese cars of 2.5%.  He has a point.  It would be nice if there was a big searchable spreadsheet with a comprehensive list of tariffs and import duties both coming and going on US products and foreign products .  If there is something like this already I can't  find it.

 
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Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
10,130
3,276
Tasmania, Australia
Elon Musk tweeted Trump asking his opinion about Chinese tariffs on US made cars of 25% vs our tariff on Chinese cars of 2.5%.  He has a point.  It would be nice if there was a big searchable spreadsheet with a comprehensive list of tariffs and import duties both coming and going on US products and foreign products .  If there is something like this already I can't  find it.
That would make more sense.

Applying tariffs to raw materials such as steel & aluminium increases local costs to manufacture finished goods but does nothing to affect the price of imported finished goods. So the only people who make money/sell more stuff are the steel & aluminium mills while all other domestic manufacturers end up further behind.

It's stupid.

FKT

 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
62,406
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De Nile
I think you'll find that your exports fall even further as you get more expensive & less competitive.
that right there is exactly correct. If US manufacturers can't be competitive at current costs, what makes you think they'll be MORE competitive when costs are higher?

 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
62,406
5,551
De Nile
That would make more sense.

Applying tariffs to raw materials such as steel & aluminium increases local costs to manufacture finished goods but does nothing to affect the price of imported finished goods. So the only people who make money/sell more stuff are the steel & aluminium mills while all other domestic manufacturers end up further behind.

It's stupid.

FKT
exactly. 

 

Mid

Blues Rule
Millionaire Sen. Chuck Grassley Applying For Trump's Farm Bailout Funds



He's dipping into Trump administration's $12 billion program to subsidize farmers hurt by Trump's trade war.


Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) supported President Donald Trump’s $12 billion bailout for U.S. farmers to mitigate the damaging effects of the trade war. Now the senator is applying for those same bailout funds for his own 750-acre Iowa farm, The Washington Post reports.

Sen. Jon Tester (D-Mont.) is also applying for payments.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/grassley-applying-for-trumps-farm-bailout-funds_us_5bb15303e4b0343b3dc1591c

 

mikewof

mikewof
45,640
1,212
Mismoyled Jiblet. said:
 Me, if China wants to send me electrical energy in the form of refined aluminum for less than cost the more the better.
Then I hope you never find yourself in a position of economic authority.

When an economy loses its ability to source raw material and manufactured components from within its own borders, it can eventually lose control of the entire manufacturing process and become just a consumer economy.

Ask yourself ... why are so many components from iPhones made in China?

 

mikewof

mikewof
45,640
1,212
That would make more sense.

Applying tariffs to raw materials such as steel & aluminium increases local costs to manufacture finished goods but does nothing to affect the price of imported finished goods. So the only people who make money/sell more stuff are the steel & aluminium mills while all other domestic manufacturers end up further behind.

It's stupid.

FKT
Tariffs may be stupid for common raw materials, but they can help for strategic materials. One need only spend some time in South America to see the results of what happens when protectionism is dismantled wily-nily.

 

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
10,130
3,276
Tasmania, Australia
Tariffs may be stupid for common raw materials, but they can help for strategic materials. One need only spend some time in South America to see the results of what happens when protectionism is dismantled wily-nily.
Once again you don't seem to realise that I'VE LIVED THROUGH THIS.

Australia had high tariff walls and all sorts of import restrictions to protect domestic manufacturing. Protection all round was the mantra.

It didn't work worth a damn. All we ended up with was inefficient industries with no incentive to get better & compete because they didn't have to, in bed with unions who could make wage demands way over the odds because their employers could just pass it on to the consumers, who had no choice.

Yes, protecting the supply of strategic stuff has some justification, but consumer stuff or commodity type raw materials? No.

As for the South American countries, IMO most of their problems are political screwing about with the economy. They have raw materials and educated people. Venezuela is a poster child for political interference and economic illiteracy. Their inflation rate is going to challenge Zimbabwe for worthless currency soon, if if hasn't already got there.

FKT

 




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