Who wants to defund / abolish the police?

[frenchie]

Imagine how many such incidents went unnoticed/reported before smart phones became ubiquitous. Phones with cameras are a huge deterrent for bad police behavior I would think.  

The evidence so far suggest cops don't care if they're on camera.

 

[frenchie]

Same cop, new job:

 

[d'ranger]

It's not that there are just a few bad apples, it's that the rest know what happens if they speak up - the next time they require assistance their brothers will be busy elsewhere. Recently a narcotics cop working Ft Bend county southwest of Houston did traffic stops in order to search for drugs. Out of his last 187 stops 185 of them were Hispanics. Houston just indicted 6 narcotic cops on a variety on felonies - 2 of whom killed 2 people in a botched no knock raid.

Protect and Serve - seems so quaint today.

 

[Steam Flyer]

I think it's great that the slogan DE-FUND THE POLICE makes rightie heads explode.

- DSK

 

[Not for nothing]

who's going to buy all the dunkin donuts?

 

[Ease the sheet.]

When your only strategy for social cohesion is based on policing, you got a serious fucking problem.

Drugs should not be a police issue.

Poverty should not be a police issue.

Calling the police to a house fire because the fire department has no money is just plain fucking stupid.

Along with the premise of this thread.

 

[Ease the sheet.]

I think it's great that the slogan DE-FUND THE POLICE makes rightie heads explode.

- DSK

Yeah. But it's just a small "poof".

If brains were dynamite, fuckers would have enough to blow off their Maga hats.....

 

[Steam Flyer]

I think it's great that the slogan DE-FUND THE POLICE makes rightie heads explode.

Yeah. But it's just a small "poof".

If brains were dynamite, fuckers would have enough to blow off their Maga hats.....

Long ago, a neighbor used to yell at kids "If your brains were gasoline, it wouldn't be enough to drive a pissant motorcycle around a cheerio"

- DSK

 

[silent bob]

 

[Gouvernail]

defund is about the worst choice of words ever made. 
no one wants to terminate entire police forces and have none.

the “defunding” has to do with looking at places we are spending money in a manner where is simply isn’t working.  
 

Currently in most communities 911 calls for all sorts of nonviolent non dangerous situations  are answered by a fully armed squad of law enforcement personnel whose tools and training are more appropriate for armed robberies, hostage situations, and riots. 
    Because the word “defund” has been used to describe taking some funds away from one emphasis and re-applied in a different manner, those who blindly love the status quo are enraged about losing their police force.

    How about if we raise our discussion here to a more informed level and start discussing how moving some of our resources to different applications could help society? 
 

     How about if we discuss the possibility our overly armed and under trained police often escalate a situation by involving lethal weapons when nothing about the situation called for lethal weapons?  
 

     More training and fewer weapons might be a fundamentally sound goal. 

 

[Ishmael]

Venom reacted to this


 











 
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. 
George Carlin

 

[Rok Dog]

Keep going

Although Black Americans seem about as comfortable as Americans overall with the amount of police presence where they live, they differ markedly in their perceptions of how their local police might treat them if they were to interact.

Fewer than one in five Black Americans feel very confident that the police in their area would treat them with courtesy and respect. While similar to the 24% of Asian Americans saying the same, it is markedly lower than the 40% of Hispanic Americans and the 56% of White Americans who feel this way. This could either stem from Black Americans' own negative experiences with the police or from their familiarity with people who have had negative encounters with law enforcement.

So,  you agree the poll says the majority of blacks don’t want a reduction in police presence?

 

[Rok Dog]

Venom reacted to this


 











 
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. 
George Carlin

Think of how many of them think they aren’t part of that half.

 

[jzk]

Nice fantasy.  The reality is:

• Most police still don't have bodycams. 
  
• Most PDs with bodycams, lack a clear policy about releasing footage to the public (or even their civilian review boards). 
  
• There is no drop in police brutality associated with the implementation of bodycams. Literally doesn't budge the needle in any significant way.
  

The reforms need to go a lot deeper than just cams.  

Body cams and gopros are getting cheaper.  Do you have a cite on your police brutality data?  Hard to believe that it doesn't make any difference.  As police departments continue to get sued, it is going to make a huge difference.  Do you think the video in the George Floyd case didn't make a difference?  As Tom stated, it also helps the police.   There are many people that make allegations against the police, and the cams show that they are just lying.

In addition to the youtubers that are out auditing second amendment rights, there are a whole group out there auditing first amendment rights.  They go up to police stations and FBI buildings and just start videoing until some asshole FBI agents come out and push them around on video.  Cops act as if we need their permission to walk around in a public place, and that we have some kind of burden of showing them that we are not up to no good.  "Where are you heading today?"  "Where are you coming from?"  Why the fuck to police officers ask that shit during a traffic stop?  They are using a traffic stop as a pretext to dig for more stuff.  

 

[Steam Flyer]

Body cams and gopros are getting cheaper.  Do you have a cite on your police brutality data?  Hard to believe that it doesn't make any difference.  As police departments continue to get sued, it is going to make a huge difference.  Do you think the video in the George Floyd case didn't make a difference?  As Tom stated, it also helps the police.   There are many people that make allegations against the police, and the cams show that they are just lying.

In addition to the youtubers that are out auditing second amendment rights, there are a whole group out there auditing first amendment rights.  They go up to police stations and FBI buildings and just start videoing until some asshole FBI agents come out and push them around on video.  Cops act as if we need their permission to walk around in a public place, and that we have some kind of burden of showing them that we are not up to no good.  "Where are you heading today?"  "Where are you coming from?"  Why the fuck to police officers ask that shit during a traffic stop?  They are using a traffic stop as a pretext to dig for more stuff.  

Well, somewhere, somebody is setting a building on fire. Or maybe blocking traffic.

Therefor the cops should toss your ass in the back of an unmarked minivan and detain you with no process and no communication, until they decide otherwise.

- DSK

 

[frenchie]

Do you have a cite on your police brutality data?  Hard to believe that it doesn't make any difference. 

Consider:  Chauvin, Kueng, Lane, and Thao were all wearing bodycams.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/10/20/558832090/body-cam-study-shows-no-effect-on-police-use-of-force-or-citizen-complaints

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/21/15983842/police-body-cameras-failures

https://www.wired.com/story/body-cameras-stopped-police-brutality-george-floyd/

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/21/10329

I'm not saying they aren't an important tool; just that they aren't the panacea people used to think they'd be.

 

[jzk]

Consider:  Chauvin, Kueng, Lane, and Thao were all wearing bodycams.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/10/20/558832090/body-cam-study-shows-no-effect-on-police-use-of-force-or-citizen-complaints

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/21/15983842/police-body-cameras-failures

https://www.wired.com/story/body-cameras-stopped-police-brutality-george-floyd/

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/21/10329

I'm not saying they aren't an important tool; just that they aren't the panacea people used to think they'd be.

Yeah, but you also said it literally didn't budge the police brutality meter in any way.   Just wondering about that data.

Youtube is filled with videos of people out intentionally keeping police in check.  That has to have an effect.  It is clear that the police routinely detain people illegally.  They seem to think that if someone calls and complains about a person for any reason, they have the power to detain them.  They don't.  Each unlawful detention should come with a significant penalty.  That would correct things in a hurry.

 

[Sean]

Yeah, but you also said it literally didn't budge the police brutality meter in any way.   Just wondering about that data.

Youtube is filled with videos of people out intentionally keeping police in check.  That has to have an effect.  It is clear that the police routinely detain people illegally.  They seem to think that if someone calls and complains about a person for any reason, they have the power to detain them.  They don't.  Each unlawful detention should come with a significant penalty.  That would correct things in a hurry.

The police unions have a powerful, and unhelpful imo, influence on the issue -

How Police Unions Became Such Powerful Opponents to Reform Efforts

Half a decade after a spate of officer-involved deaths inspired widespread protest, many police unions are digging in to defend members.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/06/us/police-unions-minneapolis-kroll.html

 

[jzk]

The police unions have a powerful, and unhelpful imo, influence on the issue -

How Police Unions Became Such Powerful Opponents to Reform Efforts

Half a decade after a spate of officer-involved deaths inspired widespread protest, many police unions are digging in to defend members.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/06/us/police-unions-minneapolis-kroll.html

Agreed.  Bust it up.  Throw the teacher's union in there while you are at it.

 

[d'ranger]

“Irony is wasted on the stupid”
― Oscar Wilde

Speaking of - interesting that posters who are anti-union support police unions.