Why are people still allowed to move and build out west?

[Raz'r]

They alternate.  Three years ago, lows.  Two years ago, over the docks.  One year ago, it went back and forth.  But that's completely dependent on rainfall etc.  And anyone can tell ya that when you start pumping out the water, the water's gonna be leaving.

But so many people are like "but there is SO much water..." and they don't even think to look at what has happened to the huge lakes out West and Down south the first time they had big droughts and were pumping all the water elsewhere to drink.

The GL need to be untouchable.

 

[Grrr...]

The GL need to be untouchable.

Should, but aren't.  Just look at the water bottling plants that are pulling from the aquifer in the region.  It takes 30+ years for water to seep down through the clay to be filtered into that acquifer.....and it will run out.  So they screw the residents.  And of course, some of that aquifer water comes from from lake seepage.  Which means they are already pumping the lakes in a round about sorta way.

 

[Ventucky Red]

And stop the international crime that is bottled water.

Agree, but the counterpoint is convenience.  When was the last time you saw and/or used a drinking fountain?

 

[Voyageur]

Agree, but the counterpoint is convenience.  When was the last time you saw and/or used a drinking fountain?

when was the last time you filled your own water bottle from a municipal source. most of this country has/had good drinking water piped into their taps. disposable water bottles should be just as legal as an abortion, or less so.

 

[Burning Man]

In many areas of the country, our water system is collapsing.  We are draining acquifiers dry (go Florida!), destroying the water systems for irrigation (the arid portions of the midwest), and decimateing lakes, streams, rivers and wildlife areas for drinking water (Vegas, and other Western States).

Why do we continue to allow the populations of these areas to build new houses, build new buildings, water new lawns, and let people continue to move INTO these areas that areas that are already under huge water shortages and have been for a long time?

I know the answer.  Politicians, and freedumb.  I mean, jesus, if we can't get people to wear masks we sure as shit aren't going to be able to get them to care about nature any.  But still.

This rant was brought about because my nephew just bought a dinky little house that cost $600,000 in Hurrican, Utah.  Right near vegas.  It's ridculously arid, except for the town areas where they water and irrigate the hell out of everything so it's nice and green.  There are a couple small-ish lakes nearby and a small river, but not enough to support the town.  

He bought there because he's into quads, dirtbikes, and rockcrawling.  And to quote him "it isn't regulated out here, I can go anywhere".  And.... well.... just..... grrrrrr....

Yeah!  All you fuckers not currently living in "The Western States"...... stay the fuck away and Keep the Fuck out!  Especially you kali-forn-i-a liberal homos who want to move away for lower taxes, easier regulations, more living space, and cheaper housing.  And then you get here and elect fucking liberal politicians - they raise the taxes, enact more oppressive regulations, and drive housing prices up.  And run us out of water.  Idiots!

 

[Meat Wad]

Agree, but the counterpoint is convenience.  When was the last time you saw and/or used a drinking fountain?

Really with all the kooks around. A public drinking fountain is a piss pot for some. Even when I was in HS, fucking turds would spit all over them, except at the Gym, Coaches would kick you ass. Back then they could and get away with it.

If it is a water cooler in an office building, maybe.

 

[Cal20sailor]

Yeah!  All you fuckers not currently living in "The Western States"...... stay the fuck away and Keep the Fuck out!  Especially you kali-forn-i-a liberal homos who want to move away for lower taxes, easier regulations, more living space, and cheaper housing.  And then you get here and elect fucking liberal politicians - they raise the taxes, enact more oppressive regulations, and drive housing prices up.  And run us out of water.  Idiots!

Get it out of your system.  Not that you haven't been prepping for a while, but LGBTQ Pride Month begins tomorrow!

It's nice that your message implies that you would welcome kali-forn-i-a conservative homos with open arms.

 

[mikewof]

In many areas of the country, our water system is collapsing.  We are draining acquifiers dry (go Florida!), destroying the water systems for irrigation (the arid portions of the midwest), and decimateing lakes, streams, rivers and wildlife areas for drinking water (Vegas, and other Western States).

Why do we continue to allow the populations of these areas to build new houses, build new buildings, water new lawns, and let people continue to move INTO these areas that areas that are already under huge water shortages and have been for a long time?

I know the answer.  Politicians, and freedumb.  I mean, jesus, if we can't get people to wear masks we sure as shit aren't going to be able to get them to care about nature any.  But still.

This rant was brought about because my nephew just bought a dinky little house that cost $600,000 in Hurrican, Utah.  Right near vegas.  It's ridculously arid, except for the town areas where they water and irrigate the hell out of everything so it's nice and green.  There are a couple small-ish lakes nearby and a small river, but not enough to support the town.  

He bought there because he's into quads, dirtbikes, and rockcrawling.  And to quote him "it isn't regulated out here, I can go anywhere".  And.... well.... just..... grrrrrr....

The houses, buildings and occupants don't really suck up that much water. The big culprit is antiquated water law and agriculture and power. This pie chart is for Colorado, but it's indicative of the rest of the Western states ...

Perhaps your question should more accurately be "why do we allow this continued water-intensive agriculture instead of low-water drougt-region agriculture?"

Pecan and almond farmers in California and Arizona use Federally subsidized water to grow their insanely thirsty crops while pecan and almond farmers in places like Mississippi and Alabama are paid to not grow their crops. Farmers are incentivized to plant water-thirty crops instead of drought tolerant crops for fear of losing their water allotments to lack of use. 

Wanna discuss that?

 

[mikewof]

Agree, but the counterpoint is convenience.  When was the last time you saw and/or used a drinking fountain?

I use them whenever they're around, but they've given way to these things ...

Put your bottle in the spot, the electric eye opens the tap, fills up your bottle with high-quality municipal water ... typically much cleaner than bottled water.

 

[mikewof]

I live in a place with extra water today. there is no way in hell, I would support selling any of it to the people who decided to live in the desert, to water the lawn. the bottled water cartel does enough damage already. there is a good reason that the american west was easily conquered by whitey. almost nobody lived in most of the wide open desert. the natives where wiser than we are.

It usually isn't an issue. In the water-energy nexus, it's super cheap to store water and crazy expensive to ship water. Conversely, it's super-cheap to ship power and crazy expensive to store water.

The only way water is typically sold is when it is allocated downstream, because Mother Nature wanted it there anyway. All that water in the Great Lakes? It's too expensive to ship it anywhere, but it is sold, though not as water, it's sold virtually through the cattle, diary and produce that the water irrigates in the region. Canada controls about 1/4 of the planet's freshwater, they are poised to make great wealth off of this virtual water. In fact, it's probably far more efficient to let Western populations skyrocket, and switch to drought agriculture, than to worry about lawns and golf courses. We should grow water-thirty crops in places like Iowa, Indiana and Michigan, and not in places like California and Arizona. We should save California, Arizona, Nevada, etc. for low-water industries like microprocessors, information, renewable energy, etc..

BUT ... the Army Corps of Engineers built these subsidized water projects, and now our economy would rather see shortage of water in these areas than a lack of justification for the water projects. And what do people in places like California do? Rather than accept that they have to move to low-water industries, the discuss ever more ambitious water projects. We'll never learn, and it's not the fault of lefties, righties, reds or blues, it's the fault of ignorance that is in no short supply on either side of the aisle.

To your bit in bold, it's something of a Eurocentric disinformationist touchstone. Aztecs, Sioux, Lakota, et al., lived in the Western high plains and deserts and did well for themselves. If you have the time, read this book;

 

[Steam Flyer]

I know a couple of people in southern California who SWEAR that "the drought" is a liberal conspiracy....there is no drought.

I can't even process that. The evidence is everywhere in their lives and they simply refuse it.  One guys response to me declining to spend time on some far-right nutjob website where he supposedly "proves" that it's just liberals ruining everybody lives?  "There are none so blind as they who will not see.".

I dunno dude. I look out the window and I see that it's not raining very much, you know?

Next time, laugh and ask him if it's raining over in his part of the internet.

- DSK

 

[giegs]

Another factor is that for existing infrastructure, increased frequency and severity of wildfire results in more runoff during precipitation events and brings more sediment into catchment basins while destroying and/or overwhelming things like culverts, ditches, levees, etc.

In some cases that deposition has high enough concentrations of heavy metals and such that it can pose a hazard for reclamation efforts once dams are decommissioned.

It's hard to see anyone in the region with a lush, green lawn as anything other than hostile to their own community.

 

[Raz'r]

Another factor is that for existing infrastructure, increased frequency and severity of wildfire results in more runoff during precipitation events and brings more sediment into catchment basins while destroying and/or overwhelming things like culverts, ditches, levees, etc.

In some cases that deposition has high enough concentrations of heavy metals and such that it can pose a hazard for reclamation efforts once dams are decommissioned.

It's hard to see anyone in the region with a lush, green lawn as anything other than hostile to their own community.

My lawn looks like shit. Kinda what it should look like. The clover has been good though, gets to June before it browns and the bees like it. Damn coast live oak trees grow like weeds here so I’m letting them take over. Kids are too old to play in the back yard anyway

 

[benwynn]

I live in SoCal and it is incredible to me that something in such short supply is so cheap.  There are three tiers on my water bill, measured in units of one hundred cubic feet (HCF), which is 748 gallons.

1-6 HCF:  $2.92 per HCF

7-12 HCF: $4.82 per HCF

Over 12 HCF: $6.24 per HCF

2 HCF per month is about 50 gallons a day.  I'm thinking I should be paying on two tiers:

1-2: $2.92 per HCF

Over 2: $100.00 per HCF

Based on this, at my current usage, my water bill would increase from about $90 to around $1020.  Our plants would be dead, our cars dirty, and we would all stink.  But we would save one shit load of water.

If it's scarce, price it accordingly.  

 

[dfw_sailor]

I live in SoCal and it is incredible to me that something in such short supply is so cheap.  There are three tiers on my water bill, measured in units of one hundred cubic feet (HCF), which is 748 gallons.

1-6 HCF:  $2.92 per HCF

7-12 HCF: $4.82 per HCF

Over 12 HCF: $6.24 per HCF

2 HCF per month is about 50 gallons a day.  I'm thinking I should be paying on two tiers:

1-2: $2.92 per HCF

Over 2: $100.00 per HCF

Based on this, at my current usage, my water bill would increase from about $90 to around $1020.  Our plants would be dead, our cars dirty, and we would all stink.  But we would save one shit load of water.

If it's scarce, price it accordingly.  

Or you could put in subsurface irrigation, with graywater re-use, and maintain a nice landscape at the rate of 1,000 square feet per resident, and pay for itself within 3 years, even at the low cost of $4.82 per HCF. 2,00 square feet per resident if no much lawn and mulched beds instead.

 

[Expat Canuck]

The houses, buildings and occupants don't really suck up that much water. The big culprit is antiquated water law and agriculture and power. This pie chart is for Colorado, but it's indicative of the rest of the Western states ...



Perhaps your question should more accurately be "why do we allow this continued water-intensive agriculture instead of low-water drougt-region agriculture?"

Pecan and almond farmers in California and Arizona use Federally subsidized water to grow their insanely thirsty crops while pecan and almond farmers in places like Mississippi and Alabama are paid to not grow their crops. Farmers are incentivized to plant water-thirty crops instead of drought tolerant crops for fear of losing their water allotments to lack of use. 

Wanna discuss that?

Absolutely agree. Also consider the California rice patties. Absolutely absurd to have them. 
What would really hurt would be if cattle ranchers (or their modern version - feed lots) had to pay the real cost of the water needed to raise a cow. Steaks would get real expensive in a hurry!

 

[dfw_sailor]

In the water-energy nexus, it's super cheap to store water and crazy expensive to ship water. Conversely, it's super-cheap to ship power and crazy expensive to store water.....

Just a small clarification, super cheap to hold water in a dam, although with a lot of evaporation.

Rain is free, but onsite storage of rain is very expensive in urban / semi rural locations.

 

[badlatitude]

Get it out of your system.  Not that you haven't been prepping for a while, but LGBTQ Pride Month begins tomorrow!

It's nice that your message implies that you would welcome kali-forn-i-a conservative homos with open arms.

BM welcomes all homos, don’t let him kid you. Just knock on his back door.

 

[Gouvernail]

Money

 

[Bristol-Cruiser]

It would essentially be illegal in Canada as per Bill C-383 2012. There are precedents here that go back to the Treaty of Ghent 1814, that require boundary issues to be bilateral. It would probably be better to look at how Israel has agriculture and everything else in an arid climate. 

Israel is not a good example to follow. Almost none of the Jordan River makes it to the Dead Sea and Israel uses a lot of water that their neighbours feel belongs to them. Water issues could easily lead to war there. Same between China and India. China is diverting more and more water to the arid NE of the country - where Beijing is. The water they are taking has heretofore flowed into India in a basin where many tens of millions live.