spankoka
Super Anarchist
It seems like a desirable boat, but J Boats doesn't want to sell it?
Why did J Boats drop the J100?
- Thread starter spankoka
- Start date
glass
Member
The J/100 was the Overall Winner of the 2005 Sailing World-Boat of the Year Competition.
By 2007 the world economy was in recession. One could purchase a brand new Jeep Grand Cherokee with a Mercedes Benz diesel V-6 for lees that what it cost to build. I know because I have one.
Bristol-Cruiser
Super Anarchist
It is a different world and boat market today. Lot more retired farts looking for a quality, easy to sail boats. I would think they could sell enough boats to make it worthwhile. I assume they still have the tooling.
Geronimo
Member
Rumor has it that it’s not “dropped”. If you wanted to pay a premium for a brand new one you can have one. Everything is available for a price.
glass
Member
Geronimo, I would be interested if it is possible to rearrange the interior.
Just like on Archambault 31 the bulkhead at the mast needs to be replaced with partial bulkhead while the enclosed head needs to be moved to one side of the companionway.
https://www.theglobesailor.com/archambault-31-specifications-sm1008.html
Who do I contact to get one built?
I think that's part of the niche the new J/9 is supposed to fill...Why build a 15 year old design?
That full width bulkhead at the mast contributes tremendously to the stiffness of the boat and ties in the mast step and chainplates. Most early J's have it, I wouldn't want to get rid of it.
The 100's never sold that well, and part of the problem is their performance. Its a 33 footer that's barely faster than a J29.(at least on W/L) The only 100's I've seen do extremely well were the "Good Girl/Bad Girl" twins but they were pretty highly modified and sailed by rock stars.
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glass
Member
When it comes to daysailers like J/100, I am not sure that owners care much about ratings.
If you live long enough you will discover that there are other priorities in life more important than accumulating pickle dishes; that is unless you have a small pickle.
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All boats are a compromise. To make it a daysailor, its only got a small, easily tacked jib, didn't originally come with the sprit and has not much more sail area than the J/29. While there are certainly J-29s that don't perform well, we all know the boats potential, and easily write off poor performing J/29s to crew and lack of prep. Most J/100s started racing largely outfitted from a daysailing perspective, with owners who bought the boat with racing less than the number one priority. As the Good/Bad Girl twins proved, if you opitmize (in this case including some mods) the boat can be very competitive.
IMR
Anarchist
Everything is available for a price!! I bet they would build you a new 125 if you coughed out $750K, but than again you could just buy a used one for $300K so why not do that. Once good used boats start trading, new boat production slows way down in a class most of the time.
There are two J100s (both shoal draft) at our club and since we had ours built in 2009 the J100s are the boats to beat.
We are the big fish in a small pond.
I did a little racing in LIS and in the ocean and felt we were competitive with our rating. J wanted to sell us a J95 and I wasn’t interested and off shore with our North Sails rep crewing on the J95 it couldn’t compete. In the river and bay every time a J95 went up against one of the J/100s it lost. Great decision on my part to tell J NO!
Mine was one of the last ones built and I sometimes wonder if their marketing targeted the wrong audience. They were trying to entice bigger boat owners who were tired of recruiting and feeding a large crew, to downsize. But that is a limited market.
The other problem is the lack of a sprit. Because I solo sail often and occasionally fly the asymmetrical, I don't miss the extra steps of dealing with the sprit. But at the time the boat was introduced sprit boats had become hot.
The other thing why they may be holding on to their popularity is the double handed racing. Our club used to run a coed double handed race for years and my wife and I were so difficult to beat that the competition stopped showing up. This summer, partially because of COVID and mostly because we are too lazy to look for crew, we decided to double hand. Won the class and even beat the other J100 whose owners are 20 years younger and they also had their two twenty something sons on board.
Another plus for short handing with the J100 is the carbon fiber mast; it’s like having an invisible crew out on the rail all the time.
As far as Good Girl/Bad Girl being tweaked: I asked North Sails to check their inventory because both North and J were advising against the ever popular 155% genoa. Turns out GG/BG biggest headsail was a 140.
The problem there is the optional genoa track was installed with a 155 in mind, so with a 140 you couldn’t always have the best car setting. J moved the track forward based on North’s specs (just like GG/BG) and it worked out very well. I was told that after my boat, any new builds (maybe two) would have one continuous track instead of two.
I can’t say how much I enjoy my J100.
But owning a sailboat is all about really knowing your specific needs and finding the boat that comes closest to those needs.
I got lucky.
We are the big fish in a small pond.
I did a little racing in LIS and in the ocean and felt we were competitive with our rating. J wanted to sell us a J95 and I wasn’t interested and off shore with our North Sails rep crewing on the J95 it couldn’t compete. In the river and bay every time a J95 went up against one of the J/100s it lost. Great decision on my part to tell J NO!
Mine was one of the last ones built and I sometimes wonder if their marketing targeted the wrong audience. They were trying to entice bigger boat owners who were tired of recruiting and feeding a large crew, to downsize. But that is a limited market.
The other problem is the lack of a sprit. Because I solo sail often and occasionally fly the asymmetrical, I don't miss the extra steps of dealing with the sprit. But at the time the boat was introduced sprit boats had become hot.
The other thing why they may be holding on to their popularity is the double handed racing. Our club used to run a coed double handed race for years and my wife and I were so difficult to beat that the competition stopped showing up. This summer, partially because of COVID and mostly because we are too lazy to look for crew, we decided to double hand. Won the class and even beat the other J100 whose owners are 20 years younger and they also had their two twenty something sons on board.
Another plus for short handing with the J100 is the carbon fiber mast; it’s like having an invisible crew out on the rail all the time.
As far as Good Girl/Bad Girl being tweaked: I asked North Sails to check their inventory because both North and J were advising against the ever popular 155% genoa. Turns out GG/BG biggest headsail was a 140.
The problem there is the optional genoa track was installed with a 155 in mind, so with a 140 you couldn’t always have the best car setting. J moved the track forward based on North’s specs (just like GG/BG) and it worked out very well. I was told that after my boat, any new builds (maybe two) would have one continuous track instead of two.
I can’t say how much I enjoy my J100.
But owning a sailboat is all about really knowing your specific needs and finding the boat that comes closest to those needs.
I got lucky.
WHK
Super Anarchist
It's strictly an economics decision. When I asked J/Boats a few years ago when they decide to stop building a class, the answer was when orders dropped below 3 per year. It's not economically efficient to build below that rate.
glass
Member
I didn't mention anything about ratings. For a 33 footer designed 20 years after the J29 its barely faster boat for boat. Weather the owner wants to race it or not, most boat owners take pride in a good performing boat. To say or think otherwise is silly.
Captain Jack Sparrow
Anarchist
It was designed as a daysailer, as a somewhat cheaper (relative) option to the Morris and Hinckley options that were coming to market around the same time in ~2004. It was not intended to compete with their weekender/racer in the 105. Also, it may be barely faster than the 29 boat for boat (ratings would suggest otherwise) but it can sail to its rating upwind with only 2 people on board. Try 2 people on a J/29 upwind and see if it sails to it's rating.
The J/100 is a perfectly good boat for what is what intended to do, which is daysail. Owners may race it, and the boat happens to be reasonably good at that, but it wasn't part of the design brief. Easy to sail and comfortable and good looking on a mooring. People who are buying J/100's to race and then complaining about its supposed or actual shortcomings are missing the point of the boat, and should have done their homework before buying.
You may have not mentioned ratings directly, but I would hazard a guess that of any discussion about J/100's and their performance attributes or otherwise only become topic of discussion when ratings are brought up. The boat sails as it was designed to do. I doubt any of the first owners were that upset with its rating seeing as they either A) Didn't race it (because they had a real race boat) B ) didn't race it because they bought it with no intention of racing or C) Raced it and had enough money to throw at developing sails and spinnaker set ups for the boat that made it a good performer.
To pig pile on with Cap't Jack, when the J/109 came out, a frequently heard criticism was that it was no faster than the 20 year older J-35. Yet it managed to sell 350 boats, so plenty of people, myself included, thought it was a good performing boat, and I took great pride in owning one. Buying another one in about 6 years is high on my "settle into retired life" plan...
Just being faster than an older generation doesn't make a boat better or worse. At least not in my mind. I looked at a J/109 as a boat as fast as a well established race boat, with much greater cruising comfort, and reduced crew requirement when compared to other 35 foot racer cruisers. I would imagine many owners would love to have a boat as fast as a J-29, but only need 2-4 folks to race it, vice the 8-10 you want on a J-29.
All good pints......
My thoughts at the time was that there was just not enough money looking for places to go ..... That was 2010.
Fast forward to 2021.... Jboats needs to be dropping proposals for new boats every month. Money, money, money.....
Sailors need places to put it. That J45 is not unique. The J100 is getting renewed interest because it looks great, reasonably fast with that Hoyt Jib boom ( lotsa wind) But above all else it is rather unique.
For an older sailor the J100 is a Corvette amongst a herd of donkeys.
My thoughts at the time was that there was just not enough money looking for places to go ..... That was 2010.
Fast forward to 2021.... Jboats needs to be dropping proposals for new boats every month. Money, money, money.....
Sailors need places to put it. That J45 is not unique. The J100 is getting renewed interest because it looks great, reasonably fast with that Hoyt Jib boom ( lotsa wind) But above all else it is rather unique.
For an older sailor the J100 is a Corvette amongst a herd of donkeys.
glass
Member
Your response to my observation about small pickle wankers accumulating pickle dishes applies perfectly in your case.
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