Why is everyone still sailing boats designed in the 1930s

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
44,119
9,539
Eastern NC
Because modern boats aren’t any better at lake sailing than  an C,E or MC scow? 
:lol:

It depends, of course, on exactly what you mean by "better" but there are certainly a hell of a lot of boats that are a hell of a lot better in a hell of a lot of at least a half-dozen or so characteristics.

The two reasons that the USA class racing is done in dinosaurs: the dinosaurs are already here and are cheap; there are a number of zealots who insist that only REAL sailing is done in their particular favorite dinosaur.

FB- Doug

 
G

Guest

Guest
Sailing is a relative speed sport, its not fast. Planing boats other than dinghies only plane in "their" conditions which are not as common as you might think for a keel boat. The last AC was not a sailors regatta, it was an engineers and gym workout regatta. For all intents and purposes they may as well have been playing x box for all the relevance it has to sailing as we know it.

The reason why these old boats are still going is that they still sail well, you can be competitive and practice the art of sailing. Essentially you are on a moving chessboard with a myriad of factors to manage and anticipate while you practice your tactic, strategy, boat handling, crew management etc etc etc..... On faster more more powerful boats the need for professionalism grows to the point where a bunch of amateurs probably shouldn't be on a TP 52 over 20 kts... plus the classics that are still around have an X factor that keep them going, whether that may be aesthetics, handling or economy. Boats come and go but the good ones with good associations hang around.

 
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Snaggletooth

SA's Morrelle Compasse
33,760
5,441
@Editor-you no what I misse?  Thinges licke halving a champione Star Sailore on SA Chat to answere questiones RE: traineng, geare, and physicalle conditioneng.......    :)

It wase funn stuffe...............   pertaineng to olde boates to              :)

 
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DetroitOD

Member
60
4
Detroit
The biggest reason is $$$. There are a lot of cool new boats but until people spend money on them they never catch on.  The question is do you spend $10K for a Melges 15 or $2K for a good used Laser or Sunfish? If you want a bigger boat the costs go up as well. There are so many used boats out there that are competitive that spending all that money on a new one makes little sense. 

My thought is find a fleet you like, buy a good used boat and have fun sailing.  
I guess that’s the problem the fleet i used to be a part of always had 10+ boats on a Sunday start line. Now best they can do is 4-6 and the marina now has less than 10 sailboats in total but they added more docks for all the pontoons.

 
G

Guest

Guest
Sailing as we old fucks know it is a dying sport, its dying with the boomers and dying with the expense. But we few remain,

and Storm’d at with shot and shell, 
Boldly we rode and well, 
Into the jaws of Death, 
Into the mouth of Hell 
   Rode the six hundred. 
Flash’d all our sabres bare, 
Flash’d as they turn’d in air 
Sabring the gunners there, 
Charging an army, while 
   All the world wonder’d: 
Plunged in the battery-smoke 
Right thro’ the line we broke

 

adrianl

Member
319
24
our fleets

Atlantics - 1928

Stars - 1911

Thistle - 1945

Lightnings - 1938

Laser - 1970

Vanguard - 1992

RS Aero - 2019

and everyone is happy with the fleet they chose to be part of.

 

DetroitOD

Member
60
4
Detroit
I learned on a C175 built in 1959!

@DetroitODWhat did you have in mind for the "new hotness"?

There have been whispers that Detroit is ripe to become an Aero hotbed...
RS Areo? I’ve never seen one. Not sure what specific model  but want to be 2-3 up. Asymmetric, nice open cockpit. Melges 15 looks fun, something bigger from the RS line… 

 

Santanasailor

Charter Member. Scow Mafia
1,357
706
North Louisiana
I learned on a C175 built in 1959!

@DetroitODWhat did you have in mind for the "new hotness"?

There have been whispers that Detroit is ripe to become an Aero hotbed...
150 for me.  Slow and old but an Aerobat could be fun.  Interesting, 150’s were very much individuals.  One would leap into the sky and fly very close to its book speeds.  Another all but had to be lifted into the sky and was maybe as much as ten mph slower than book speeds.  (In those days we were still flying by mph instead of knots. However, knots makes more sense) 

In all my years I never could get it clear in my mind how quickly the 150 transitioned into a spin.  Looked so gentle from the ground.  Oh for the days and the fun in the air.  Final thought, it took me too many years to learn how to stick a Skyhawk’s landing.  Gotta get the airspeed just right and she hits the runway like she was glued there.  150 & Cutless, no problems.  Skyhawk, if not handled right, floats like a hot air balloon.    

What were we talking about?

 
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RS Areo? I’ve never seen one. Not sure what specific model  but want to be 2-3 up. Asymmetric, nice open cockpit. Melges 15 looks fun, something bigger from the RS line… 
Probably because there are "close enough" boats for all of those categories. J/70's blew up because of some teams upgrading and some teams downsizing, 3-5 up, trailerable, Asym one design that would hold its value. Vipers the same to a lesser extent. Real speed freaks are on F-18's. Thistles and Lightnings are EVERYWHERE as the family 2-4 up one design dinghy. 

The problem with introducing a new boat is that you have to invest in something that might not pay off. Someone here brought a whole container of Melges 15's to New Jersey and they're having a blast because everyone bought one at the same time. If you want to be the fleet cheerleader you really need to buy more than one boat and tons of spare parts to be able to get other people to play with you and convert them to the dark side  your fleet of choice. 

 

LionessRacing

Super Anarchist
4,351
591
Myrtle Beach,
I understand your point but would love to understand how your fleets have grown with this strategy the last 10-20 years? 
Fleets of many of these classes have maintained across generations... A new dinghy has a trajectory of rapid growth, and then obsolescence as people go on to the next new thing. A Star/Snip/Comet/Lightning sailor with 40 yrs at the helm is a very worthy competitor, even if they are not agile on a trapeze

 

fastyacht

Super Anarchist
12,928
2,596
Fleets of many of these classes have maintained across generations... A new dinghy has a trajectory of rapid growth, and then obsolescence as people go on to the next new thing. A Star/Snip/Comet/Lightning sailor with 40 yrs at the helm is a very worthy competitor, even if they are not agile on a trapeze
Young sailors need todo what I do: owner crew a 505. You can grt older sailors to helm. They love it. You csn also put 11 yo kids back there. They also love it.

 

fastyacht

Super Anarchist
12,928
2,596
Probably because there are "close enough" boats for all of those categories. J/70's blew up because of some teams upgrading and some teams downsizing, 3-5 up, trailerable, Asym one design that would hold its value. Vipers the same to a lesser extent. Real speed freaks are on F-18's. Thistles and Lightnings are EVERYWHERE as the family 2-4 up one design dinghy. 

The problem with introducing a new boat is that you have to invest in something that might not pay off. Someone here brought a whole container of Melges 15's to New Jersey and they're having a blast because everyone bought one at the same time. If you want to be the fleet cheerleader you really need to buy more than one boat and tons of spare parts to be able to get other people to play with you and convert them to the dark side  your fleet of choice. 
Fleet builderd are central to ALL small boat sailing. Including thistles for instance. Fleet builders often spend quite a bit buying boats.

 

fastyacht

Super Anarchist
12,928
2,596
our fleets

Atlantics - 1928

Stars - 1911

Thistle - 1945

Lightnings - 1938

Laser - 1970

Vanguard - 1992

RS Aero - 2019

and everyone is happy with the fleet they chose to be part of.
Westport is a cool place to sail.

 

kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
27,205
5,127
Kent Island!
The basic problems are these:

1. If you want to sail OD, you need a fleet.

2. That fleet sails boat X. If you don't buy an X, you have no one to sail with.

3. It is very close to zero-sum, if you can convince local sailors to form a fleet for boat Y, most of them are going to come from boat X and that class will die or you will end up with two weak classes instead of one strong one.

Take a look at the 12 Meter class. It is over 110 years old and seems to be doing as well as ever while the Americas Cup that had to have the newest cool toys seems to be circling the drain.

 
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