Why is it getting better? US / world

Kate short for Bob

Super Anarchist
3,634
544
Really? Vaccinated people are not far less likely than the unvaccinated to spread pathogens?

You're now claiming that there is no such thing as herd immunity?

- DSK
You've just agreed with me.  Vaccinated people are "less likely" but it doesn't protect everyone around them does it?

I'm not claiming there is no such thing as herd immunity.  However I believe there are two paths to herd immunity not ONE which is what you seem to adhere to.  I also have the opinion that herd immunity can be reached below 75% of the population being vaccinated.  For example if 50% of the population are Covid-19 Recovered then you don't need to vaccinate that part of the population.

In that regard there is some very interesting research emerging, first reported in the New York Times, that shows naturally acquired immunity appears to last much longer than those vaccinated.  This is good news and confirms the research done on SARS-1 where immunity has lasted 17 years.

 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
45,577
10,271
Eastern NC
Really? Vaccinated people are not far less likely than the unvaccinated to spread pathogens?

You're now claiming that there is no such thing as herd immunity?

- DSK
You've just agreed with me.  Vaccinated people are "less likely" but it doesn't protect everyone around them does it?

I'm not claiming there is no such thing as herd immunity.  However I believe there are two paths to herd immunity not ONE which is what you seem to adhere to.  I also have the opinion that herd immunity can be reached below 75% of the population being vaccinated.  For example if 50% of the population are Covid-19 Recovered then you don't need to vaccinate that part of the population.

In that regard there is some very interesting research emerging, first reported in the New York Times, that shows naturally acquired immunity appears to last much longer than those vaccinated.  This is good news and confirms the research done on SARS-1 where immunity has lasted 17 years.
Deflect, distract, bullshit

You said

No it doesn't protect everyone around them
but clearly, if vaccinated people are less likely to get infected and if they do anyway, they exhale far less virus... that protects people around them.

If enough people get vaccinated, we reach herd immunity without the percentage of the population dying of it. What's 1% of 330 million, Mikey? You want that many people to die of covid? Apparently, yes you do.

- DSK

 

Kate short for Bob

Super Anarchist
3,634
544
If enough people get vaccinated, we reach herd immunity without the percentage of the population dying of it. What's 1% of 330 million, Mikey? You want that many people to die of covid? Apparently, yes you do.
But aren't you safe if you have been vaccinated or have had the virus? Aren't the only people that are at risk of serious illness those that aren't vaccinated?

 

Ease the sheet.

ignoring stupid people is easy
20,411
2,371
But aren't you safe if you have been vaccinated or have had the virus? Aren't the only people that are at risk of serious illness those that aren't vaccinated?
Like those with compromised immune systems?

Or those with diseases/syndromes that cause immune system failures?

 
Last edited by a moderator:

NeedAClew

Super Anarchist
6,135
1,740
USA
Maybe in some vaccine grateful countries herd immunity is relevant for the near to mid future. Not my dogfight.

We likely will not get 70 percent fully vaccinated in the US. Given the patchy nature of vaccine acceptance/reluctance and covid hotspots, it would be a long time to get uniformity in immunity such as it is. Given the incredible level of domestic tourism now, plus overseas trips, it's going to be a long ride 

It's basically a household model, imho. Do what you choose to be as safe as you care to be. We plan to vax often, stay away from venues prone to the unvaxed (an indicator is they catered to the unmasked before), and enjoy life. Realistically we never went to NASCAR or large concert/theatre venues anyway. 

The maps at the end are good. Some people never get vax for anything. 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/06/03/us/virus-vaccine-states.html

 

Kate short for Bob

Super Anarchist
3,634
544
There also the people other people getting vaccines help.

Of course you know this, but it won't stop you from spouting stupid shit.
No I'm not spouting shit as you put it.  However the goal is Herd Immunity to protect those vulnerable that you highlight although they will still be vulnerable to any number of diseases and conditions that are present in society.

Probably half the USA population has already had Covid-19 and acquired immunity therefore have contributed to the goal of herd immunity.

Herd Immunity isn't a dirty term and if elimination is to be achieved then it is a goal that needs to be achieved one way or another.

 

danstanford

Anarchist
680
180
Lake Ontario
I truly believe a large part of the culpability here with the people resisting vaccination lays with our governments and media. They have managed the flow of information and clearly have given us messaging intended to keep us scared and therefore not spreading the virus. This lofty aspiration has largely come to fruition but lots of people have grown to distrust various 'facts' being released and are simply doing what they think is best given the uncertainty in the messaging.

 

Ease the sheet.

ignoring stupid people is easy
20,411
2,371
No I'm not spouting shit as you put it.  However the goal is Herd Immunity to protect those vulnerable that you highlight although they will still be vulnerable to any number of diseases and conditions that are present in society.

Probably half the USA population has already had Covid-19 and acquired immunity therefore have contributed to the goal of herd immunity.

Herd Immunity isn't a dirty term and if elimination is to be achieved then it is a goal that needs to be achieved one way or another.
So those getting the vaccine are now protecting others?

No you get vaccinated to protect yourself. 



 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
45,577
10,271
Eastern NC
I truly believe a large part of the culpability here with the people resisting vaccination lays with our governments and media. They have managed the flow of information and clearly have given us messaging intended to keep us scared and therefore not spreading the virus. This lofty aspiration has largely come to fruition but lots of people have grown to distrust various 'facts' being released and are simply doing what they think is best given the uncertainty in the messaging.
There is a large element of this, but it's not "the government managing" information here in the USA. It's a universe of media screechers all trying to make money by selling whatever hype they think the rubes will buy.

Yes, the info published by government agencies was inconsistent and very often difficult to understand. But it was also, for the most part, coming "from the horses mouth" instead of being sanitized and clarified by partisan publicity flacks... although the Trump Admin ramped up the effort to do so, not for reasons of public health.

- DSK

 

slug zitski

Super Anarchist
7,104
1,469
worldwide
There is a large element of this, but it's not "the government managing" information here in the USA. It's a universe of media screechers all trying to make money by selling whatever hype they think the rubes will buy.

Yes, the info published by government agencies was inconsistent and very often difficult to understand. But it was also, for the most part, coming "from the horses mouth" instead of being sanitized and clarified by partisan publicity flacks... although the Trump Admin ramped up the effort to do so, not for reasons of public health.

- DSK
Get your politics out of it 

when the vaccination program first began health authorities stated that the first 50 percent of vaccinations would occur rapidly 

the remaining 50 percent , young people and those that are difficult to reach , would be a challenge 

this is is exactly how the vaccine rollout has progressed in the US and in the rest of the world 

 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
45,577
10,271
Eastern NC
Get your politics out of it 

...
So you can stick your politics in?

No

Knowledge is power. We the people spent the money to learn all kinds of sciencey stuff, most of it is far above the comprehension of most of us, and not very entertaining anyway. But we benefit from the people who do understand it, and can use it.... and we should all have access to it.

- DSK

 

NeedAClew

Super Anarchist
6,135
1,740
USA
There is a large element of this, but it's not "the government managing" information here in the USA. It's a universe of media screechers all trying to make money by selling whatever hype they think the rubes will buy.

Yes, the info published by government agencies was inconsistent and very often difficult to understand. But it was also, for the most part, coming "from the horses mouth" instead of being sanitized and clarified by partisan publicity flacks... although the Trump Admin ramped up the effort to do so, not for reasons of public health.

- DSK
Thanks, Murdoch and Tucker Carlson et al!

Australia changed the US via The Apprentice editing, Fox.  Don't forget whose money was behind that. I hope Jerry Hall spits in his food.

 

danstanford

Anarchist
680
180
Lake Ontario
There is a large element of this, but it's not "the government managing" information here in the USA. It's a universe of media screechers all trying to make money by selling whatever hype they think the rubes will buy.

Yes, the info published by government agencies was inconsistent and very often difficult to understand. But it was also, for the most part, coming "from the horses mouth" instead of being sanitized and clarified by partisan publicity flacks... although the Trump Admin ramped up the effort to do so, not for reasons of public health.

- DSK
Here in Canada the Government of the country and the province I live in were recently publicly disappointed with a science group for releasing their views on the AZ Vaccine. I think if you are going to preach that we have to listen to the science you shouldn't get to bitch when you don't like what it says. 

Dan 

 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
45,577
10,271
Eastern NC
Here in Canada the Government of the country and the province I live in were recently publicly disappointed with a science group for releasing their views on the AZ Vaccine. I think if you are going to preach that we have to listen to the science you shouldn't get to bitch when you don't like what it says. 

Dan 
Well, sure. Science is not what we want it to be.

I'm still disappointed as hell that we don't have flying cars and Moon colonies, like the scientists all said we would have by now, back when I was a kid.

- DSK

 


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