Why is it getting better? US / world

danstanford

Anarchist
676
176
Lake Ontario
Your empathy seems forced.....
Ease, there was no empathy, merely a statement of what I have observed. 

If you are coming from a position that the economic system has let us down, please elaborate on what you need that you don't have or cannot access. When Covid first arrived for us almost a year ago I got my staff together and asked them what they wanted to do going forward since I did not want anyone to have to risk their lives in ways they did not feel comfortable with going forward. Everyone said they wanted to work and we have all, save for two who have struggled with child care, been to work every day. I could have afforded to stay home and forgo the risk of being out there but these people need paychecks and so we enacted all the best practices at work for safety and have soldiered on. 

What scares me for the future is the blind belief on the part of so many that we can continue to borrow money as nations with little thought of how to pay it back. My children and grandchildren are going to have to pay it back. People are already blaming previous generations for a 'mess' of a financial situation and that will only get worse as they see a larger portion of the proceeds of their work going to service the debt. 

 

BlatantEcho

Super Anarchist
1,041
297
And the counter-argument is that letting a very contagious virus run rampant through your society isn't good for the economy either. Have you found any legit sources yet that have run the numbers to back up your opinion?

Kill the economy (and a metric fuck-tonne of people) by letting a virus run rampant

versus

Hurt the economy by trying to control the virus.

Only one of those has any remote chance of success, where success is measured by societies general quality of life. All you had to do was buy some time until the scientists knew a bit more about handling it. But no, your privileged freedom (to live/work) outweighs all other considerations.

As a person privileged to live in a society that has handled this pandemic reasonably well, and watching other societies implode as the virus has its way, I know which I prefer. I'm fairly sure the poorer members of my society are also happy to be working/eating/living life without too many restrictions for now. Imagine how the world would be now if all the leaders had've tread similar paths and taken it seriously fro the beginning.

fyi, I know there are lots of rich people that have been adversely impacted by covid and all the restrictions, and many poor people that are better off, so this isn't the rich vs poor scenario you claim it to be.
I think this is an example of the most insidious and selfish behavior possible.

You are lumping the risks of ALL age groups, into one, homogenous group.
This is, of course, wildly inaccurate.

The CDC shows the risks to young people (35 and under) is 1000% LESS than 65+.

But, 'lockdowns' and heavy-handed policy, completely ignores the science.
It harms all people, equally.

Old people should be smart enough to stay inside for 1-2 years.
The rest of society should go about its business once we realized it was, effectively, no risk to them.

(for people 65, of course you're aware, Covid is LESS deadly than the common flu)
 

We didn't do that. We followed voodoo/populist/fake science, and we locked up healthy people - the people with no risk.
This has the counter affect, that when we 'unlock' those people... they catch the virus.  
So, we start to falsely equate that as proof that 'lockdowns work, see!'

It's sort of like AIDS, if our response was to cut off everyone's dicks, instead of helping those at risk make better & safer decisions.

We bit our nose, to spite our face. 
And the 1st world continues to cheer wildly for this plan.

 

Matagi

Ambassador of the Republic of R'lyeh
So locking up Grandma (oh no, wait, she should be 'smart' enough to do it herself...) so that you and your sock puppets can have your epic round trip from Madeira to Ecuador and beyond is ok.

And not selfish?

If Hypocrites were a species, you would be the prime example in a zoo. At least, you could tell us about how it feels to be locked up then.

 

TheDragon

Super Anarchist
3,074
1,015
East central Illinois
So for those on here who argue that lockdowns don't work, masks are useless, bars and restaurants and large social events should continued as if it was 2019, virus be damned because only the old and fat will die, what would you suggest that the governments of the Czech Republic and Estonia should do now that they face yet another surge of infections?

Screen Shot 2021-02-25 at 6.54.40 AM.png

 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
44,284
9,612
Eastern NC
In some ways they do, assuming there is enough of them. It concentrates wealth into fewer hands. The renaissance was helped along by the plague, could this happen again?
Actually, that's backward (no surprise). The plague forced higher wages, and increased the political power of trades guilds, and boosted the middle class

But that was afterward.

During the actual plague, the economy was dead dead dead. Corpses don't contribute to the economy. Nor do panicked people fleeing or huddling in their homes avoiding all contact.

The nations that did best at controlling the plague also have the best economies.... cause/effect or some strange impossible coincidence?

- DSK

 

danstanford

Anarchist
676
176
Lake Ontario
This graph supports the various theories that we really do not know what is controlling the rate of infection. It has been comforting to talk about the possibility that the spreaders have reached the fringes of herd immunity and that this has been responsible for the decline in cases here in North America and some other areas. The Estonia data could fit into this narrative as they have not had the peaks of the US and UK and so have not built the immunity needed to slow down the spread. 

None of that fits with the Czech Republic as far as I can tell. How much immunization have they had I wonder? 

 

Ease the sheet.

ignoring stupid people is easy
20,029
2,205
Ease, there was no empathy, merely a statement of what I have observed. 

If you are coming from a position that the economic system has let us down, please elaborate on what you need that you don't have or cannot access. When Covid first arrived for us almost a year ago I got my staff together and asked them what they wanted to do going forward since I did not want anyone to have to risk their lives in ways they did not feel comfortable with going forward. Everyone said they wanted to work and we have all, save for two who have struggled with child care, been to work every day. I could have afforded to stay home and forgo the risk of being out there but these people need paychecks and so we enacted all the best practices at work for safety and have soldiered on. 

What scares me for the future is the blind belief on the part of so many that we can continue to borrow money as nations with little thought of how to pay it back. My children and grandchildren are going to have to pay it back. People are already blaming previous generations for a 'mess' of a financial situation and that will only get worse as they see a larger portion of the proceeds of their work going to service the debt. 
Debt and deficits, for a country that prints its own money is a political construct, not an economic one.

Governments are almost always in the red with talk of impending financial crisis. A crisis that never seems to come.

 

hasher

Super Anarchist
6,623
1,093
Insanity
I think this is an example of the most insidious and selfish behavior possible.

snip

We bit our nose, to spite our face. 
And the 1st world continues to cheer wildly for this plan.
Your reflections fail to reveal any high level thought.

Sweden thought they knew a different path.  The policy created disaster.  Now,  the results dictate altering course.

I'm sure you have an unsinkable ship and live in a fireproof hotel.  

 
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NeedAClew

Super Anarchist
6,033
1,691
USA
You are an insufferable dick.  What constitutes old??  Who decides who is "Old" fuck you and everything you stand for.  
Well that, too. But when old or preexisting conditions people stay home for 1-2  years, then the small biz snowflakes start whining about business failures because "the rich" aren't going to their shops, restaurants, bars. They aren't traveling if they stay home so genx can get a tattoo. Well, sunshine echo, in the US Boomers have a huge, huge share of disposable income. They are saving it up or giving it to Amazon whilst staying home. And in the US, that's what, nearly half the population if you count obesity and high blood pressure, cancer.

 
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NeedAClew

Super Anarchist
6,033
1,691
USA
We bit our nose, to spite our face. 
And the 1st world continues to cheer wildly for this plan.
No, snowflake. We bit other people's noses to spare our faces, transferred wealth to industries that facilitated virtual/deliver/wfh lifestyles, let loser-industry workers get worse jobs with Doordash, gave money to Amazon and places with curbside pickup of home goods, garden supplies, dinner including cocktails to go.  We cheer because our stock portfolio is doing great. FYI your local bar, iconic diner, nail salon is usually not publicly traded. 

 
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Gissie

Super Anarchist
6,497
1,720
But that was afterward.

- DSK
Thanks for the insult, nice to see you don't change. Anyway, the comment I replied to, if you bother to read, was that the dead don't help to rebuild society. I took that to mean afterward. As in after the problem had gone. Sort of like I was saying.

But keep up the SA ignorant shit slinging, it suits you.

 

danstanford

Anarchist
676
176
Lake Ontario
then the small biz snowflakes start whining about business failures because "the rich" aren't going to their shops, restaurants, bars. 
Speaking of insufferable dicks. 

For what it is worth, I am one of the small businesses that is doing really well through this pandemic because I am in an industry niche that is servicing people stuck at home watching home decorating/renovation shows. I will pay lots of taxes as will my business and for the most part I am ok with that. However, I am strongly offended for the millions of people who took the plunge, mortgaged their homes, put life on hold, and risked everything and now are in peril of losing it all. They aren't whining, they are suffering in ways it is hard to imagine. If you want to understand, imagine it was your parents losing your inheritance. 

 

NeedAClew

Super Anarchist
6,033
1,691
USA
My parents are long dead. I am a twat not a dick. 

The real business owners may not be whining and I apologize to them. There areca lot on here and in the news who whine and rave allegedly on their behalf who imo increased the severity of the pandemic. Because politics.

BTW entrepreneurs always risk losing everything in times of economic downturn, technological disruption, market shifts, natural disasters. 

 

Gissie

Super Anarchist
6,497
1,720
Pointing out facts is not an insult

- DSK
Actually, that's backward (no surprise).

Sort of took that to mean I always get it backwards. Anyway, your facts sort of proved my point. Deaths and the money shifting/concentrating helps rebuild a society. Whether in a good way or not is a different argument.

Most of your facts had to do with the during phase, not the afterwards phase. In other words just misdirection and bluster. Still it is SA, so staying on topic or answering what was said is not really the done thing.

Have a great day, sun is shining and outside work beckons over here.

 

danstanford

Anarchist
676
176
Lake Ontario
Debt and deficits, for a country that prints its own money is a political construct, not an economic one.

Governments are almost always in the red with talk of impending financial crisis. A crisis that never seems to come.
From an economic perspective, quantitative easing is easy and seemingly victimless. Keynes would even have you believe that it will stimulate business and you can therefore pay it back with the extra tax revenue, but I have never seen it despite several decades of unbalanced spending. 

As long as all the interest cost went back to domestic lenders one could make the case that it is largely a non-issue domestically but eventually, even suddenly, your currency has to take a hit and that costs everyone though it encourages domestic manufacturing over imports. 

In my heart and head I believe it is wrong to mortgage our future no matter the various political party's views.

 

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