why?

MPH

Super Anarchist
1,825
124
NW
b) To Keep ones eligibility to compete in any other sanctioned event. Every Male participant of that weekend event. provide a mouth swab
If I had been participating in this event and this was suggested, I would be more than happy to provide anything required in order to 1. Find the fuckers who did it, and 2. Ensure that my name isn't muddled in it. 

 

shaggybaxter

Super Anarchist
4,535
2,578
Australia
“But we must protect the institution of collegiate sailing, just a few bad apples it will pass.”

Which of course misses the point that the institution is bad and should  not be protected.

Seems to be a common problem these days.

No doubt people will be reaching the sailor protection policies and then like but again having a policy and acting responsibly are not the same thing.
Yep. I hate to admit it but I believe Australian Sailing would be reaching for the anti law suit platitudes whilst doing precisely nothing to help the victim because they chose senior staff that desire money and position over morality. US sailing and ICSA did not commit the offences, but absolutely have a moral and ethical responsibility. THIS is a primary focus as to why governing authorities exist, to establish and enforce the moral and ethical boundaries that allow participants to be safe.  This is also the reason I left the sport after 30 years, I could not countenance a national authorities allowance of abuse and bullying of members that I witnessed. 

If I had been participating in this event and this was suggested, I would be more than happy to provide anything required in order to 1. Find the fuckers who did it, and 2. Ensure that my name isn't muddled in it. 
Yes. If it is as reported, anyone that was there or part of the organising bears some responsibility, maybe not for the crime but certainly for providing closure for this girl. It happened on their watch. Saying its not my problem the boat sank and a crewman got hurt because I was doing bow and its not my fucking job is reprehensible.      

Gentlemen's sport? I wonder what Rachel Holick would say about that.

 

Swanno

Super Anarchist
Brave and courageous girl for stepping up. I hope she can recover.

To the people who did it, I hope they are guilt ridden and in are in pain for the remainder of their miserable lives.

Fuck you to anyone who wants to defend them. Happened to someone i know too. What makes it worse was the sports governing body did nothing about it. 

 

sunseeker

Super Anarchist
3,702
631
Brave and courageous girl for stepping up. I hope she can recover.

To the people who did it, I hope they are guilt ridden and in are in pain for the remainder of their miserable lives.

Fuck you to anyone who wants to defend them. Happened to someone i know too. What makes it worse was the sports governing body did nothing about it. 
I agree with you, except a rapist has no guilt, no shame, no remorse. They just reload and do it again.

I hope they end up being Bubba’s little prison bitch. You think some spoiled rich kid yacht racer is going to survive in prison doing hard time? 

 
Yep. I hate to admit it but I believe Australian Sailing would be reaching for the anti law suit platitudes whilst doing precisely nothing to help the victim because they chose senior staff that desire money and position over morality. US sailing and ICSA did not commit the offences, but absolutely have a moral and ethical responsibility. THIS is a primary focus as to why governing authorities exist, to establish and enforce the moral and ethical boundaries that allow participants to be safe.  This is also the reason I left the sport after 30 years, I could not countenance a national authorities allowance of abuse and bullying of members that I witnessed. 

Yes. If it is as reported, anyone that was there or part of the organising bears some responsibility, maybe not for the crime but certainly for providing closure for this girl. It happened on their watch. Saying its not my problem the boat sank and a crewman got hurt because I was doing bow and its not my fucking job is reprehensible.      

Gentlemen's sport? I wonder what Rachel Holick would say about that.
Shaggy surely the various and conflicting Members Protection Policies in the various jurisdictions would protect the members or not?
 

 

alphafb552

Super Anarchist
2,914
625
Fryslan boppe!
.. glad i had boys...
You and everyone out there with sons needs to speak to them and make sure they understand that such behavior is not acceptable in any shape or form. It is not 'funny', it is not 'just boys being boys', it is not 'being an alpha male'

It is barbaric behavior pure and simple

 

Blue Crab

benthivore
16,513
2,717
Outer Banks
Cristoforo said:
Service academy students cant be rapists? Where have you been?  
Never said or implied that.  Just saying they are expected to conduct themselves at a higher level than most college kids.  They are being trained to lead others, as well as college academics.  
More of the American Myth of Exceptionalism. We're going to take a longer look at that one. 

 

RobbieB

Super Anarchist
3,193
1,701
Charleston, SC
Pretty sure there are plenty of rapist "who just slip away" in all walks of life.
This is 100% true.  However, I'm still betting we'll at least know the involved parties on this one.  Weather or not they slip away will be up to the lawyers and there will be lawyers.  Probably already are which is why no one will talk to Scott, (not that everyone wants to talk to him anyway on a good day).

 

RobbieB

Super Anarchist
3,193
1,701
Charleston, SC
Not really.  I was made aware of an unreported case of sexual assault in our small sailing community here on Vancouver Island.  The victim made a conscious decision not to report it.  I respected her decision and her request that I not report it either.  It is way more common than you think.
Well- if you don't report it then it didn't happen unfortunately.  Based on what victims have to go through in deals like this, (as much as I hate it) I can understand why some or many decide not to say anything.  Kind of one of the shitty things about our system is trying the victims although on the rare occasions it has been found someone falsely reported something.

 

nirikki

New member
44
16
Seattle
Thanks for the thoughtful comments.

You are correct, I should have used words more specific than "happens all the time".  Perhaps instead I should have said "all too often" or something similar.

You are also correct, I am an advocate.
To expand on this.

Even the FBI pulled the stats down for "false" rape allegations because "false" doesn't mean what people think it does all the time.


The Uniform Crime Report defines rape as:

Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.


Some situations where an allegation of rape may be marked as "False" in the UCR by different jurisdictions:  
 

  • The victim quits cooperating with the police due to any reason.
  • The rape was witnessed by a 3rd party and the victim refuses to cooperate with police.
  • The rape was anal penetration in a state where rape only applies to vaginal penetration.
  • The rape happened in a state where the victim is required  to fight back.
  • The rape happened in a state where the perp didn't use threats of violence where that is required to meet the local definition of rape.
  • The local police lack the training to understand the difference between UCR subcategories.
  • The state requires a rapist use physical violence that results in demonstrable physical injury to meet their definition of rape.
  • The investigation failed to substantiate the allegation or because the investigator simply did not believe the victim’s account.
  • etc....
     

The myth that malicious false rape allegations are common and is widely held in our society. It damages the credibility of sexual assault victims seeking assistance from friends, family, social services, and the criminal justice system.

Even if you choose the middle of the numbers and say that 5% of reports are classified as false, that doesn't always mean an allegation has been maliciously made up.

Law enforcement professionals and many of the public believe the myth that many (if not most) sexual assault reports are false allegations and it negatively effects our ability to fight the problem.

Even if all of those 5% of rapes were maliciously made up, it wouldn't differ much from the rates of other types of violent felonies. If we want to both bring rapists to justice as well as protect innocent people from malicious claims the answer is the same.

Quit spreading the myth that malicious false reports of rape are the norm or even common.  Support the victim and the legal process and quit making a special case for rape for victim blaming and dismissal.

 
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Thistle1678

Member
105
37
I really hope this is investigated, but I also 100% understand if no formal report was made at the time. The shock and shame response makes a lot of people fail to report an assault or rape at the time.  Months, years later you maybe share it with friends, and if you are extremely brave, contact authorities who may or may not help, and then maybe go public. I am sure Rachel was doing what she could all along.  There deserves to be an investigation, but there may never bet "proof" or "evidence" unless one of the perpetrators also comes clean.  I would hope someone on the team that knows comes forward I know there is a desire to protect the program, but this require extreme changes to the culture if multiple members really participated. I vividly remember walking a couple of female sailors at lets  just say college sailing "social events", out of unwelcomed situations.  Would the situations have gone further? I'll never know, hope not, but it was then and probably is now, a pervasive problem in colleges. I'm just learning about this now after seeing the ICSA response earlier. 

 

[email protected]

Super Anarchist
2,288
211
USA
I dont understand why people who aren't lawyers love to put #BadLegalTakes all over the internet all the time.

Fun fact: Testimony is evidence.

 

Thistle1678

Member
105
37
I dont understand why people who aren't lawyers love to put #BadLegalTakes all over the internet all the time.

Fun fact: Testimony is evidence.
Victim testimony is evidence, buy not every DA will go to trial with only that Counselor. And as an off campus incident between two different institution I'm sure the internal investigation is fraught too.  I hope there is a criminal and administrative investigation and for the love of god, a resolution. I'm disappointed ICSA in not launching it's own investigation, I guess they aren't equipped.  I've been around enough to know the justice system is far from perfect and a conviction or plea it's not a given and not even the norm since the crime is under reported to begin with.   

 

[email protected]

Super Anarchist
2,288
211
USA
Assuming these crimes happened in the City of Annapolis, i'm not sure this was even reported to police.  Annapolis puts summaries of police reports online and I don't see this one listed, but perhaps allegations of this nature are excluded.

 

Thistle1678

Member
105
37
Assuming these crimes happened in the City of Annapolis, i'm not sure this was even reported to police.  Annapolis puts summaries of police reports online and I don't see this one listed, but perhaps allegations of this nature are excluded.
We know when it happened but not when/if it was reported so it may be hard to find.  It just hits me in the gut if something like this happened in college sailing, it feels like it's a crime committed in my house that I didn't know about.  I wasn't there, my team wasn't there, but it's my sport and happened in my conference so it hits different.  

 

Thistle1678

Member
105
37
Cristoforo said:
She certainly does not owe anyone any explanations, but perhaps if she had a spokesperson or added something like 'there is an ongoing investigation', it would clear up  unanswered questions. I would think if she was willing to make this public, she surely would have pressed charges. Maybe she has and not enough evidence for authorities to proceed? Is this a last ditch effort to find justice?  There must be witnesses at the bar etc to identify the kids. Lots of questions. 
Time will tell as you said we're not owed anything, if she was willing I'd like to see a disciplinary hearing  But then again that could be a litigious minefield too.   

 
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Rum Runner

Rum Runner
5,323
326
Illinois
Cristoforo said:
She certainly does not owe anyone any explanations, but perhaps if she had a spokesperson or added something like 'there is an ongoing investigation', it would clear up  unanswered questions. I would think if she was willing to make this public, she surely would have pressed charges. Maybe she has and not enough evidence for authorities to proceed? Is this a last ditch effort to find justice?  There must be witnesses at the bar etc to identify the kids. Lots of questions. 
Rich people have spokesmen. I am sure a lot of lawyers are calling her home as we speak.  How about letting her video speak for itself. I sure hope the police are working on this. 

 

Rain Man

Super Anarchist
7,372
2,179
Wet coast.
Well- if you don't report it then it didn't happen unfortunately.  Based on what victims have to go through in deals like this, (as much as I hate it) I can understand why some or many decide not to say anything.  Kind of one of the shitty things about our system is trying the victims although on the rare occasions it has been found someone falsely reported something.
I spoke with the individual who committed the assault the morning after.  He claimed he was too drunk to remember what happened, but accepted responsibility for his actions.  We agreed he would no longer attend regattas, and if he did, I would get word to his wife about what had happened.  So far as I know he has kept to that agreement - it happened several years ago.

So, there was a small amount of justice.  I hope the victim is doing ok.

 




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