Wild Times

[toddster]

More COTB: Said YES to LIFE-raft.

For the last couple of months, I've been cooling my heels back at or near Home Port. Working on projects, and finishing far fewer of them than I had imagined. But mostly WAITING interminably for the arrival of the life raft that I ordered back in March. After a long debate on whether I even needed it. Finally got it last night. (I'll spare you the long whiny story.) So as soon as I can button stuff up, I'm free to get back on the run.

I slapped it on in a hurry and must say that I'm not too happy with the initial installation. But as far as I can see it's better than the obvious alternatives. At least it is solidly secure there. But for one thing, the manual release seems a little too facile. I feel like a second, more secure manual latch is needed (threaded so as not to interfere with automatic release.) So it only drops off if you really truly mean for it to go.

And the locations:

1) Outside, port, of the push-pit. Easy to deploy from the cockpit if SHTF. Should drop away clear in case of manual or automatic (after sinking) activation. Keeps the decks clear. (Or at least doesn't further fuck them up.) BUT: Horrible place for weight distribution. Will need to move or adjust Life-Sling and SUP rack position. Bad location in case of fire? Possibly susceptible to external bumps, especially the hydrostatic release, which sticks out in the middle.

2) Well, I could flip it around so it's inside the push-pit. That way it's protected from collisions and wouldn't interfere with the SUP rack. But that would mean a manual deployment requires heaving almost a hundred pounds up and over the rail. Or around the backstay. (Sure, I could do that now, but what about in emergency conditions? Or if I somehow got injured or old.) And it looks as if it might interfere with opening the poop-deck hatches. Certainly it would clutter up poop-deck operations. BTDT, trying to keep it clear now. Oh, but at least the instructions, such as they are, would then be visible from inside the boat.

3) Could go horizontally under the boom. That would mean drilling more holes in the deck (ugh) and seems so... permanent. One would have to go forward to deploy it. And carry it up the side and heave it overboard. In the event of a sinking, might an automatically-deployed raft under the boom become entangled in the rigging? In case of fire though, one would want the thing forward, as all the smoke and flames would presumably be blowing into the cockpit.

Won't quite fit forward of the mast. At least not without covering the deck hatch for the forward head. Or mounting it off to one side. Besides, that's a working area that I need clear.

Well, I gotta get off this dock, so for now it is what it is. Can always change it later.
Except for that manual release. Only that single chain link sitting there on the pelican-hook keeps the raft from falling overboard. I'm at least adding some kind of lashing to that.

BTW, these things don't come with a manual or instructions. Except for the pictograms on the label. The hydrostatic release has a little instruction sheet that can be found on-line but only a few pictograms on the package.

(Ironically, the J/42 comes with a dedicated "life raft" locker. But that's where the SCUBA compressor and misc docking gear currently live. So the raft is out in a capsule.)

 

[Tom Keffer]

I feel your pain. The J/42 isn't really intended to be a long-distance cruzer --- not enough storage space. It was designed to be a New England coastal sailor, with an occasional Bermuda race. As much as I love my boat, it wouldn't be my first choice as a full-time liveaboard.

 

[toddster]

I'm still in "my last boat was so small this seems like big to me" space. But yeah, it is more difficult than it should be to find a place for my pile of loose gear.
I did look at a few more classic cruisers, but they were so worn out and needed so much that I got tired just looking at them. OK, Wild needed more than I thought it would too, but I guess they all do. Maybe something would have turned up, with a bit more patience. And looking farther afield.

Symptom of getting old. I just can't quite bring myself to believe that anything installed after 2000 could be worn-out or obsolete! Isn't that practically brand new?

 

[GlennP]

THe only thing you need to remember about the instructions manual is: don’t pull the little string… until you need to…

 

[Gissie]

THe only thing you need to remember about the instructions manual is: don’t pull the little string… until you need to…

Then hope the guy that packed it wasn't having a bad day...

 

[Panope]

Then hope the guy that packed it wasn't having a bad day...

Same for parachutes...

 

[toddster]

One of the reasons for going with Datrex was that these are the guys who do the servicing for all the other brands. At least in our area. Their website recounts horror stories of what they find after other guys work on them. Or direct from the other guys factories. And of course, they assert that they do things right. Anyway, the certificate packet came with photos of the raft being tested and packed.

On the old boat, I had an old Avon valise coastal raft that I got from Craigslist, before the first time that I headed out across the Columbia River Bar. “Just a couple years out of certification,” I was told, “but it’s a mid-90’s model. Should be fine.” Then I found out that nobody would re-pack it because it was too old and official consumables weren’t available after the company folded. The scenario for dragging the thing out of the bottom of the sail locker for deployment was never very plausible. Anyway, a single-floor “coastal” raft isn’t quite the right thing for PNW waters. Finally, prior to moving aboard I decided to open it up and try to test and re-pack it myself. Upon which I discovered that it wasn’t “from the 90’s” at all but was actually FIFTY years old! It seemed to have a little corrosion and mildew - or was that fossilized talc powder? The canopy was a little discolored. (And, um... during final clean-out of the house, two little brass washers were discovered near the site of the re-packing operation that might have come from the inflator fittings.) The test and repacking seemed successful, but eventually, I decided that I could no longer trust the thing (or fit it in, once I moved on board.) So I hauled it out into the yard and pulled the cord. It worked fine. Held air for a week before I tossed it in the dumpster. Probably could have trusted it after all. For a while.

Some of that white stuff in the middle is frost from expansion of the inflation gases.

 

[Gissie]

Their website recounts horror stories of what they find after other guys work on them.

I opened one that had already been done, new owner wanted it checked anyway. What a mess it was.

The modern rafts are all vacuum packed, which is why they get three years between service. The company that had done this one had no idea about how to vacuum it and no new bag. So they just stripped everything out and off it. Water, first aid, ladder, drogue, everything so they could get it back in the case. Thing was a right off.

So a warning on the vacuumed rafts, you will not get that thing back in without some help. If you do, it probably won't launch. However if you decide to try, please set up a camera first for our entertainment.

 

[Jim in Halifax]

So, what about the boat owner attending the repack or even DIY repacks? Before the chorus of government and insurance proselytizers start-up, I'll just say that a local company that gives offshore workers basic survival training, repacks their training rafts regularly. I witnessed this years ago. It ain't rocket science. If you are the type that maintains everything on your sailboat yourself (often because your not satisfied with service the 'pros' provide), why not your liferaft?

 

[Jim in Halifax]

So a warning on the vacuumed rafts, you will not get that thing back in without some help. If you do, it probably won't launch. However if you decide to try, please set up a camera first for our entertainment.

Why not? Have you ever vacuum packed clothing/luggage? If someone else does it so can you. I'll agree the first time will be amusing. I have some good laughs at my own expense.

 

[Hale Moana]

Welcome to joys of cruising. People pack their boats full of stuff. If I would have crammed everything that people said I absolutely had to have I would never have been able to leave. Did I have a life raft. No. My small rib was always inflated and was lashed to the foredeck. I was coastal cruising and never far from land. Water maker. No. People have been cruising for decades without one. Diesel generator. No. I had a small inverter that would power the few power tools I had. I did acquire a small 1000w generator from a friend because he couldn't get it to run. I did carry lots of small parts that I thought might not be available. Springs for the winches for example. Can't tell you how many times I heard people pleading for one.

My suggestion is to take off and head for Mexico. The trip down the the coast will show up any immediate deficiencies in gear. Get those in San Diego. Everything you could ever want is within walking distance of the dinghy docks. Then head further south. I wouldn't bother with the HaHa. IMHO after going on one with a friend it is a rip off. Spend a year there. You will learn what you really need. The rest of the stuff you are dragging around is just stuff. People love to accumulate stuff. Take everything off of the boat. Get rid of everything that you haven't used except for critical safety gear and spare parts.

I do not like things hanging off the side of the boat. Take a knockdown and it will be ripped off the boat taking your lifelines and stanchions with it.

I see you have a large rib with a big outboard. How far can you row that thing when the outboard fails? And it will fail. Can you row it against a current. Better keep it locked up. Or it will get stolen. I prefer a hard dinghy with floatation that rows well. I have a small 4hp outboard. More than adequate.

Food for thought.

 

[Mid]

life rafts ,,, step UP into 'em .

and get the mal de mer pills down ya neck , ya gunna need em .

 

[toddster]

Of course it takes vacuum to pack one of these things. It even takes vacuum to repack an inflatable SUP after use. That's why the hose connects to both the intake and the output of those hand pumps. When I did the trial re-pack, I still had a full workshop and laboratory. Plenty of dry air and vacuum pumps. (Sadly, I couldn't even give them away. At least two perfectly good vacuum pumps, and tons of other stuff (literally) went to the scrap metal dealer.) I did have to make a little widget to keep the check valves open while applying vacuum. Only one of the small pumps was required, given enough time. However, it did still take three tries to get the raft rolled up tightly enough afterwards. I did make a video of unpacking it, to make sure I got the packing pattern correct.
But in the end, it was all wasted effort, except for the educational value.

 

[Whinging Pom]

A couple of year ago I was in my local life raft service centre. Out of the corner of my eye a chap was pouring expanding foam into a box and securing it with ratchet straps. My curiosity made me ask what he was doing.

Apparently with Auto Flug liferafts it's the only way they can be compressed enough to get them back in the canister.

 

[toddster]

I looked at the Ho Ho and the Ha Ha and was not too interested, except as a potential source of temporary crew. At all those social events, I seem to always be the one standing in the back who leaves early to find something more interesting. Most people aren't interested in talking to me, either. I was surprised that they actually started the (paid) seminars and planning meetings back in March. That seems like it might be valuable for some people. The timing wasn't right for me.

Yes, gear always increases to fill the available space. Things would be much easier if I simply gave up scuba diving and spare sails. And stayed in warm climates all the time. I did sell off a couple of sails I was never going to use. The kayak may go eventually, but as long as I can keep it, I might as well enjoy it. What I'm having trouble storing is mostly tools and spares. I'm converting the forward head into more of a tool room, and man, there is a lot of weight in there.

The major gear installations I've made have already proved their worth in the last year. Those that haven't are already gone. It has sometimes been months between finding working shore power or water at a dock. Is nine feet a "large" RIB? That's one item that I've been particularly happy with. Many times I've had to go five miles over rough cold water to get groceries. And yes, I've rowed it back to the boat in wind and current, just to make sure that I could. Of course, it depends on how much wind. Some day, I'd consider removing one of the two 50-gallon water tanks and using part of the space for another fuel tank - get those damned cans off the deck.

Sure, there are a couple more items back in the storage shed that I'd like to squeeze in. But something else will have to go. Maybe next year, after a few more projects, I'll take the sewing machine (and its gear) off and bring the microscope (and its crap) on.

 

[Gissie]

Why not? Have you ever vacuum packed clothing/luggage? If someone else does it so can you. I'll agree the first time will be amusing. I have some good laughs at my own expense.

I used to do the packing and would love to watch you give it a go. Also be interesting to see what you substitute the required parts with.

I also wouldn't want to go offshore with you, ever.

 

[Gissie]

Of course it takes vacuum to pack one of these things. It even takes vacuum to repack an inflatable SUP after use. That's why the hose connects to both the intake and the output of those hand pumps. When I did the trial re-pack, I still had a full workshop and laboratory. Plenty of dry air and vacuum pumps. (Sadly, I couldn't even give them away. At least two perfectly good vacuum pumps, and tons of other stuff (literally) went to the scrap metal dealer.) I did have to make a little widget to keep the check valves open while applying vacuum. Only one of the small pumps was required, given enough time. However, it did still take three tries to get the raft rolled up tightly enough afterwards. I did make a video of unpacking it, to make sure I got the packing pattern correct.
But in the end, it was all wasted effort, except for the educational value.
View attachment 595324 View attachment 595325

Yes, you need to vacuum the raft itself, but that is just the easy bit.

Then you start to fold it, then you position the water etc, then the paddles go in. Fold some more, then get the ladder in position and fold in the drogue to ensure it deploys. Attach the bottle and firing mechanism, then slide it all into a bag. Get it set up and heatseal the bag.

Then you vacuum the whole thing to fit inside the case. All while ensuring the firing part is free and lined up correctly. It is reasonably easy once you learn the tricks, without them it is almost impossible.

 

[Jim in Halifax]

I used to do the packing and would love to watch you give it a go. Also be interesting to see what you substitute the required parts with.

I also wouldn't want to go offshore with you, ever.

The rafts I saw repacked in-house for training purposes were large, commercial canister rafts - Dunlop & Viking mostly. They had probably been deployed dozens, if not hundreds of times. There was no hermetically sealed vacuum pack. They had a very low failure rate. I have never owned a liferaft or taken a boat of mine across an ocean. I have done ocean passages in other's boats. As far as I know, the rafts were either new or professionally serviced. I would not take others offshore with a liferaft that I had serviced myself. But I would certainly go solo sailing with one that I had repacked to my own satisfaction. Would you/do you service your own inflatable PFD? Do you inspect your own survival suits? I guess my point is that I have to feel comfortable with my own safety gear; you don't unless you want to sail with me. (Which apparently you don't.)

Aside: I thought the plastic-sealed vacuum pack was more about preventing fabric degradation and metal corrosion that about compacting? All rafts have to pack pretty small to fit in their canister or valise and volume is even more of a priority on yachts.

 

[Gissie]

The rafts I saw repacked in-house for training purposes were large, commercial canister rafts - Dunlop & Viking mostly. They had probably been deployed dozens, if not hundreds of times. There was no hermetically sealed vacuum pack. They had a very low failure rate. I have never owned a liferaft or taken a boat of mine across an ocean. I have done ocean passages in other's boats. As far as I know, the rafts were either new or professionally serviced. I would not take others offshore with a liferaft that I had serviced myself. But I would certainly go solo sailing with one that I had repacked to my own satisfaction. Would you/do you service your own inflatable PFD? Do you inspect your own survival suits? I guess my point is that I have to feel comfortable with my own safety gear; you don't unless you want to sail with me. (Which apparently you don't.)

Aside: I thought the plastic-sealed vacuum pack was more about preventing fabric degradation and metal corrosion that about compacting? All rafts have to pack pretty small to fit in their canister or valise and volume is even more of a priority on yachts.

The commercial rafts get done every year. Therefore it is about easy of packing, especially as size isn't overly important.

Small craft struggle to fit these things onboard, so the smaller ones were developed. The only way to minimize the size is to vacuum them down. The fact they are sealed then allowed for a three year service. There are three service cycles, then they go to yearly with the ten year involving a serious overpressure test. The idea being they should be replaced at that point.

As for sailing with you, do your own life jackets, easy as. Think you can do your own life raft, with no access to the bits you will require or knowledge to make the deploy properly, yeah right. I knew how to do this and was still nervous when I heard of boats in trouble that may have my ones onboard. To my knowledge two of my packed rafts have been used in anger, both behaved as required and saved lives.

 

[Fah Kiew Tu]

What I'm having trouble storing is mostly tools and spares. I'm converting the forward head into more of a tool room, and man, there is a lot of weight in there.

I think my boat would come up at least an inch if I took all the tools and misc containers of screws, plumbing fittings, general spares etc off.

But - no.

FKT