Windsurfer Killed by lifesaving boat in Madison WI - WTF

[GTim]

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/windsurfer-was-struck-killed-by-uw-lifesaving-boat-authorities-say/article_4835b5e3-2c81-5873-8234-b249d0a07bc0.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=user-share

What's up with that?  Any one local have more details?

 

[ScowLover]

I am an alumni from UW Madison. I can say without hesitation that UW Lifesaving is an amazing asset to safety of watersports in Madison. This is clearly a massive tragedy. The name of the victim has been released. He was a volunteer instructor with lots of years of service to Hoofers Sailing Club. Clearly something went very wrong. My heart goes out to the victim's family and the UW Lifesaving crew.

 

[RKoch]

A quick google search shows numerous media reports, but none have any additional info not in the link in OP. Power boat collided with sail-powered boat. Occurred at approx 5:45 pm, so daylight and visibility is presumed. Distracted driver, perhaps?

 

[BayRacer]

I cannot add any info on this incident.  I was commodore and instructor at UW Hoofer Sailing Club (way) back in the late 80's.  UW Lifesaving (aka "Harvey") was always a well run and valuable service on the lake.  We obviously worked closely with them on weather events and retrieving wayward folks just beginning to learn how to sail.  Very sad to hear of this.  Pretty sure they always ran with at least 2 people on board, so even harder to understand how lookout failed. 

 

[Parma]

Wow. If the responders were students...just wow. Who has liability and what kind? Who has insurance and will it cover this? Don't think the program will be stopped because they provide a valuable service & training but it won't be business as usual.

 

[RKoch]

Wow. If the responders were students...just wow. Who has liability and what kind? Who has insurance and will it cover this? Don't think the program will be stopped because they provide a valuable service & training but it won't be business as usual.

IDK the organization, but I think the responders may be students. Eckerd College in St Petersburg has a similar org., ECSAR (Eckerd College Search And Rescue) that uses students as responders.

If the responders are trained and supervised by a Dept of the University, then I'd guess the University is liable.

 

[BOKSAROX]

Harvey pulled my butt out of the lake one late fall day in 1974 when I capsized an Interlake with a non sailing and quite scared Chinese student aboard.  I hope that this does not leave too much of a black mark on a generally well run group.

 

[RKoch]

Harvey pulled my butt out of the lake one late fall day in 1974 when I capsized an Interlake with a non sailing and quite scared Chinese student aboard.  I hope that this does not leave too much of a black mark on a generally well run group.

I assume it's a tragic but isolated incident. Overall, groups like this are pretty good...much better than CG Aux or Sheriffs who have zero understanding of sailboats. I doubt this one incident would kill the program, but there'll likely be revisions of rules and training.

 

[Great Red Shark]

Tragic for the family of the sailor.  Not the first time a sailboard has been run over - recall that incident with the sailing coach that hit and badly injured a female competitor. (was that driver charged with anything ?)   Even in daylight a distracted driver at speed can do a lot of damage - recall that fatality with the patrol boat in San Diego a few years back - while some careers were probably scuttled in that incident I don't know that anyone was held accountable financially.

Of course,  it's not like they were blasting across a mountain lake in pitch darkness and ran right over an entire sailboat after drinking - and we all know THAT won't get you charged with anything  - if you know somebody.

 

[GTim]

This is definitely a tragic incident, more so because the powerboat was a "life saving" boat.  I have had a few somewhat close calls with powerboats while windsurfing.  I sense that it is mostly due to unawareness of the powerboat as to the speed (and variability of speed) of the windsurfer. You could go from planing to slogging in an instant on a gusty day.  If they are coming up in your blind spot (windward hip) you may not hear or see them. Windows in the sails help tremendously with visibility to leeward, but not always. I have come to the realization that it is in my best interest to gybe early and often to avoid any potential crossing situation with power boats. It is a match up that sadly the windsurfer surely loses.

 

[RKoch]

This is definitely a tragic incident, more so because the powerboat was a "life saving" boat.  I have had a few somewhat close calls with powerboats while windsurfing.  I sense that it is mostly due to unawareness of the powerboat as to the speed (and variability of speed) of the windsurfer. You could go from planing to slogging in an instant on a gusty day.  If they are coming up in your blind spot (windward hip) you may not hear or see them. Windows in the sails help tremendously with visibility to leeward, but not always. I have come to the realization that it is in my best interest to gybe early and often to avoid any potential crossing situation with power boats. It is a match up that sadly the windsurfer surely loses.

When I'm operating a powerboat, I give sailing vessels a wide berth. When that isn't possible, I slow to a prudent speed and use extra caution. Small boats should be treated as if there's swimmers in the water. Perhaps there were extenuating circumstances which have not been reported, but it kind of looks like a lapse of attention or misjudgment of speed and proximity.

 

[davesimon]

Heartfelt sympathy to all involved.  This is the second recent incident involving a windsurfer-powerboat collision .  In April Dr. Thomas Connelly was killed in Stuart, Florida.  He was a talented sailor and a tremendous person, and not a guy you might expect to get into trouble on the water.  GTim has some wise words:  " If they are coming up in your blind spot (windward hip) you may not hear or see them. ....gybe early and often to avoid any potential crossing situation with power boats....".  After 25 years of windsurfing I am making a personal commitment toward some extra caution.

 

[ILYAScow]

Before everyone goes crazy speculating, the newspaper reports have been terrible and there has been no official report. It supposedly happened close to the tower and it was taped off as an accident scene. It was probably a combination of many factors. The people there that day have 10's of thousand's of rescues accumulated over 30 or more years, they are professionals. 

If you had to make a choice in a rescue situation Harvey is as good as the USCG don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I have witnessed rescues no one should have been out in, they have saved so many over the years. If you don't know UW Lifesaving give them the benefit of the doubt until the whole story comes out.

Prayers for the deceased and also Harvey.

 

[RKoch]

Speculation is natural...this is a discussion forum and people discuss what happened. No one is being unfair or suggesting it wasn't a tragic accident, nor have suggested the rescue units history isn't stellar.

 

[Great Red Shark]

No speculation here - if they were sober and operating in an otherwise safe manner,  you look into the training and competence of the people aboard and decide if they were negligent. 

Proper allowance for a tragic accident by diligent safety workers versus proper determination if they were hooning about like tools.

In contrast to:  Lynn Thornton's un-prosecuted murder and the cover-up of the crime.

 

[davesimon]

Answering this as a long-time windsurfer.  No idea what happened in Wisconsin...just answering your questiion:  the speed difference on windsurfers is huge from displacement to planing.  Powerboat could see a windsurfer going slowly  a hundred yards off to one side.  Windsurfer then accelerates to 25+ knots and covers the hundred yards in 8 seconds....while the powerboat driver is looking straight ahead (3 seconds), then out the other side of the boat (3 seconds), then straight ahead again (3 seconds) befote turning his view back to check on that slow windsurfer as he continues to prudently scan the horizon.  9 seconds of not looking toward the windsurfer, while the convergence time has gone from "not" to 8 seconds. Then add in the windsurfing looking forward, it's windy so it's hard to hear especially since speed has gone from 2 to 25, and the powerboat who was aware of the windsurfer slowly moving a hundred yards to the side of his path is now converging rapidly and unless the windsurfer makes a point of looking back there is a potential problem.  Clear sails don't help....

 

[ILYAScow]

More has come out as the rescue boat was impacted by the windsurfer. The condition were extremely brisk with waves and sunlight reflecting. The rescue boat was potentially in a blind spot due to the windsurfers body position and also the tack he was on. Though obligated to stay clear of the wind power vessel they were hit. They were the only boats out on a 14,000 acre lake that late in the day. 

 

[davesimon]

Wind powered vessels are no longer the stand-on vessel if they are overtaking a powerboat;as the overtaking vessel they are required to keep clear.  Entirely possible to come from clear astern on a windsurfer, maybe carving a bit upwind in the process, and keep a powerboat being overtaken over your shoulder and invisible without concerted effort to turn around and look.  Thinking about training especially for youth....as more people in sailing are going to spend time a higher speeds on foils, cats, boards, kites, etc. we may want to emphasize more of "here's what happens with other vessels when you are one of the fastest things on the water".

 

[GTim]

There are many sides to look at. Could it be that the windsurfer was hot-dogging and went over to buzz the powerboat and misjudged? The other way around maybe? Maybe the windsurfer spun out. Happens frequently when the fin ventilates in choppy conditions sending you flying sideways like when dinghy sailing with the daggerboard up. Hopefully details will be forthcoming and information shared in the interest of prevention, not for assigning blame.

Either way, you are looking at a 35 lb rig plus weight of rider versus hundreds, maybe thousands of pounds of powerboat. Terrible outcome. And as mentioned above, as sailboats travel faster and faster, this may become more prevalent.