paps49
Super Anarchist
OK that seems to be settled, Hung you have your rig parameters.
What are the latest thoughts on propulsion??
What are the latest thoughts on propulsion??
WLYDO 32' Cruising boat
- Thread starter Bob Perry
- Start date
Soñadora
Super Anarchist
skotawm
New member
Jose Carumba
Super Anarchist
I looked up the Steyr hybrid diesels but the lowest up rating was 55 which I think is too much for this boat. A totally electric system would probably not last long enough for a windless overnighter in any area with strong currents. There has to be a hybrid type system somewhere that would work. In the Puget Sound area solar cells would't work too well.
Are there any electrical engineers out there with some good ideas?
Soñadora
Super Anarchist
Well, since this is pretty much fantasy, here's how I'd propose it:
Full electric propulsion with diesel/electric generator. No hybrids. The evolutionary branch of hybrids is a dead end.
The biggest issue is batteries. In cars, you're limited by space. On this boat, the sump could be considered an ideal spot to load up on batteries. The battery technology is set to change over the next 5-10 years to where this really will not be an issue.
With that said, we could design a full electric propulsion system and pick a spot on the boat that says 'batteries go here' and 'genset goes here'. That will free us up to put the drivetrain in place as-built.
In case you couldn't tell, I'm pretty psyched about the prospects for electric drives. There is so much potential for this to have a humongous impact on everything we do. I could be wrong and I'm old enough to not give a shit if I am.
But I don't think I'm wrong.
Full electric propulsion with diesel/electric generator. No hybrids. The evolutionary branch of hybrids is a dead end.
The biggest issue is batteries. In cars, you're limited by space. On this boat, the sump could be considered an ideal spot to load up on batteries. The battery technology is set to change over the next 5-10 years to where this really will not be an issue.
With that said, we could design a full electric propulsion system and pick a spot on the boat that says 'batteries go here' and 'genset goes here'. That will free us up to put the drivetrain in place as-built.
In case you couldn't tell, I'm pretty psyched about the prospects for electric drives. There is so much potential for this to have a humongous impact on everything we do. I could be wrong and I'm old enough to not give a shit if I am.
But I don't think I'm wrong.
skotawm
New member
What is the reach and speed requirements?
Regeneration should be in calculation - offer 1/2 a knot to get 15A ?
Brands like Sonic, Kräeutler, ASMO and OzDrive come to mind (no particular order).
Straigth shaft or saildrive?
/
Regeneration should be in calculation - offer 1/2 a knot to get 15A ?
Brands like Sonic, Kräeutler, ASMO and OzDrive come to mind (no particular order).
Straigth shaft or saildrive?
/
Veeger
Super Anarchist
Guess the Maestro is due back in town so everyone wants to show a little initiative .... that's good.
Rig: Sounds to me like non overlapping, large main, fractional, but not a self tacking rig. The truth of the matter is that since this boat isn't in production, this type of decision is somewhat non-binding. Different owners can do what they want.
Propulsion: Lot's of interest in electric. The nice thing about electric is that you have the juice for other goodies. We have the displacement for the weight at least.
I'd sure like to see a bit more discussion on cockpit and cockpit protection (dodger, bimini, cuddy all will be affected by this) It's simple but not quite as simple as one might think. For instance, might we consider moveable seating in the cockpit? Are we separating the helmsman from the 'guests'? Do we want to sleep in the cockpit? Built in vs portable ice chests?
Note: When I reference moveable seating, I'm not talking about stuff that slides around. Years ago I went sailing on a Friendship sloop in Maine that had the bench seats being literally storage boxes that were secured to the cockpit sole. You might also consider seats that fold down out of the way so that you can actually put a cot or mattress in the cockpit. The ability to stand and walkaround or even set up a folding chair that is unencumbered by the 'built in' seats might make that afternoon in a cove under a bimini quite enjoyable.
Talk it around, think outside the box. Let BP put it together with the aesthetics. Such things can actually be integrated into the design rather than just making do after drawing the same old, same old, traditional cockpit/dodger/etc.
Rig: Sounds to me like non overlapping, large main, fractional, but not a self tacking rig. The truth of the matter is that since this boat isn't in production, this type of decision is somewhat non-binding. Different owners can do what they want.
Propulsion: Lot's of interest in electric. The nice thing about electric is that you have the juice for other goodies. We have the displacement for the weight at least.
I'd sure like to see a bit more discussion on cockpit and cockpit protection (dodger, bimini, cuddy all will be affected by this) It's simple but not quite as simple as one might think. For instance, might we consider moveable seating in the cockpit? Are we separating the helmsman from the 'guests'? Do we want to sleep in the cockpit? Built in vs portable ice chests?
Note: When I reference moveable seating, I'm not talking about stuff that slides around. Years ago I went sailing on a Friendship sloop in Maine that had the bench seats being literally storage boxes that were secured to the cockpit sole. You might also consider seats that fold down out of the way so that you can actually put a cot or mattress in the cockpit. The ability to stand and walkaround or even set up a folding chair that is unencumbered by the 'built in' seats might make that afternoon in a cove under a bimini quite enjoyable.
Talk it around, think outside the box. Let BP put it together with the aesthetics. Such things can actually be integrated into the design rather than just making do after drawing the same old, same old, traditional cockpit/dodger/etc.
Burnsy
Super Anarchist
Is sleeping in the cockpit really an option?
I don't know about anywhere else, but as nice as it sounds, most nights where the weather would cooperate enough to do it - the mosquitoes most certainly would not.
I don't know about anywhere else, but as nice as it sounds, most nights where the weather would cooperate enough to do it - the mosquitoes most certainly would not.
paps49
Super Anarchist
Thats what mozzi nets are for Burnsy!!
oldgoatroper
Roper of Goats. Old ones.
I don't think you're wrong at all.
I've day-dreamed about this a lot. I think there are probably a number of places that a series of smaller solar panels could be placed on a boat without being in the way.
For instance, I've seen box-shaped booms -- why not a series of narrow cells along both sides of the boom? And, as long as we're still fantasizing, why not also a series of narrow cells on the mast to say, 1/3 or 1/2 the height? Perhaps this might be more realistic on a bigger boat, I'm not sure.
Sure, solar cells generating capacity are reduced in shadow and cloudiness but they still work and contribute as long as there is reasonable daylight. There is also the light that bounces off the water that these vertically mounted cells can also utilize.
Just an idea...
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Jose Carumba
Super Anarchist
If you have a genset and batteries and an electric motor you have a hybrid system don't you? There are many different kinds of hybrid systems, it depends on how you mix and match the elements. A true diesel-electric system runs the genset all the time at it's sweet spot to power the drive motor and doesn't run on battery power at all. Many people think they are more efficient than straight diesel propulsion but in truth by the time you factor in the various losses they are a bit less efficient.
The cool thing about the Steyr units is you can run them in several different modes: diesel only, diesel + electric boost, electric only and generator mode plus the motor acts as the starter if you want. It only adds 15" or so to the base engine, before the gearbox. But as I stated earlier the lowest up rating is 55.
Maybe a Whispergen generator would work for the system you are proposing. Worth looking into.
I'd love to have a solar cell setup if it you could get the required power from a small number of cells but plastering them all over the boat would have severe aesthetic consequences IMO.
Genset, big battery bank, & electric motor work for me.
Veeger
Super Anarchist
Now you've done it! Talking about a Whispergen. I've lusted after one forever. Even made a deal that the Admiral could get a puppy if I got a Whispergen. The problem for this application is that the Whispergen only puts out 1500 amps @ 12V per 24 hours. Great for a house battery bank but not for serious electrical consumption like propulsion.
(for those unfamiliar with a Whispergen, it's a Stirling motor, diesel fired generator that is nearly silent. No heavy diesel vibrating, high speed rpm's. It's also best when used in conjunction with a hydronic heating system to get max efficiency due to the heat output)
I know I am new to this thread.But here is what I would want in this day (overnight) boat. I and my wife are in our 50s. I last raced 25 years ago.(Hobie16s, lasers, J24s). I have sailed infrequently since I have been married. When I do I want a boat that goes to weather, and even on a 4nsb I like to do it with my butt on the weather hull, not the deck. There is nothing in sailing I like to do better than working a boat to weather, not an almost out of control plane or a 20plus knot reach on a cat. All I need is a tiller, a hiking stick, and a main I can control without a winch. Is the main on this boat going to be too big for that Whung? I hope not. My wife (and evrything I really enjoy I enjoy even more if she is with me) has other priorities. Chief among them is a big head. If she is going to be out all day and especially overnight she wants a nice bathroom. She doesn't care about a galley. She doesn't want to cook. She and I would like that nice big queen sized bed. Coudn't that be done with a convertible dinette like Paps has shown. WE're not talking sea berths here. She would love a padded sun lounge. That only needs to take up 4ft. not six of length as she(we) will be lying athwart not inline. Finally she is going to want a lot of fresh water to shower. That diesal electric system could give her pressure and hot water. For us that would be a great boat by day and anchored for the one or at most two nights she would spend. She is not going cruising, but she loves to be on the water.
she
she
sailman
Super Anarchist
Second that. Its a fantasy boat and the primary purpose is daysailer/overnight. So why not go for all electric, put in some built in panels on the coach roof and go for Li Ion batteries to run the drive unit and a separate house bank. I would be against the genset. With the pupose being daysailer why would you need the genset?
Bob Perry
Super Anarchist
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- Thread starter
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I'm back!
I sniff the jar of sea shells and stuff my wife collected off the beach. Olfactory memories are strong.
I have cleaned the salt of the Martin but still need to replace the strings. Should have gone with the Giortex Elixers.
I'm tan, no sun block for me. Too late for that after all those early days at Bondi and Manly. My Italian genes help with the sun.
What has been going on here?
I sniff the jar of sea shells and stuff my wife collected off the beach. Olfactory memories are strong.
I have cleaned the salt of the Martin but still need to replace the strings. Should have gone with the Giortex Elixers.
I'm tan, no sun block for me. Too late for that after all those early days at Bondi and Manly. My Italian genes help with the sun.
What has been going on here?
sailman
Super Anarchist
Welcome back Maestro! Glad to hear the southern climes were to your liking. Same old same old up here, design spiral still spinning.
Veeger
Super Anarchist
Lessee 'ere...
What's been going on?
Looks like fractional sloop rig, non overlapping jib (or barely) but self tacking not req'd
Electrical propulsion preferred by a number of participants
Still on the daysailor mode.
We need a nice house(cuddy?)/dodger/bimini eye candy drawing.
We need to settle on a cockpit layout.
We needed you Maestro, to keep us moving along with little teaser pictorial options to get our juices flowing. Glad you got some R & R though, and welcome back.
What's been going on?
Looks like fractional sloop rig, non overlapping jib (or barely) but self tacking not req'd
Electrical propulsion preferred by a number of participants
Still on the daysailor mode.
We need a nice house(cuddy?)/dodger/bimini eye candy drawing.
We need to settle on a cockpit layout.
We needed you Maestro, to keep us moving along with little teaser pictorial options to get our juices flowing. Glad you got some R & R though, and welcome back.
