World Sailor Classification Group 1/ Group 3

gt-MTb

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Life isn't black and white... you describe another grey area... probably much, much closer to white, and no one would argue you should be Cat-3. But can you see how a conflict of interest could happen?

As you're a physician, you can do everything you think is right, and if the patient doesn't tell you the truth on everything, your medical advise could be harmful to them... and then you get sued. Is that fair? Or course not... so you charge more to cover insurance... is that fair to your honest patients... of course not... but it's the reality.

Life isn't fair.

Personally, I have no issue drawing the line that if you work on boats/sails for a living, you are a marine professional and thus, not Cat-1. YMMV... but still no reason to be whinny and throw-out grey scenarios trying to attack a policy that is intended to eliminate the people who will game the system. The innocent pay the price sometimes... such is life
 

Gouvernail

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Hey @gt-MTb

You are certainly entitled to take my “look down upon” comment personally.

It was a poor attempt on my part to describe the fact I am not whining.
I could and should have tried to make my point other ways.

Fundamentally… I see whining as coming from the frustrated and helpless
I am coming from a position of disgusted and standing up for the helpless

Whiners tend to need something they can’t get

My position certainly includes some frustration but it is related to my desire to welcome potential playmates rather than allowing scumsucking elitist fuckwits to keep wonderful playmates off the racecourse.

People keep mentioning “gray areas.”

Let me translate “gray areas.”

This term describes the situations where someone might have to actually use his mind to consider the facts snd make decisions based upon rational consideration of the relevant facts.

My response?? Awwwww you poor babies!! You were blessed with a human mind so you could sort out gray areas. Your lazy assed selfish proposal to simply fuck over anyone whose situation might possibly occasionally require a few seconds of thought is unacceptable on every level.

If a person does not accept money in exchange for his participation, he is not a pro.
 

gt-MTb

Member
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@Gouvernail i have no issue with you, I understand it's not the way you want it... but we live in different worlds apparently.

Helpless people to me are people that don't know where there next meal is coming from... people getting abused, especially kids... people that are overcome by depression caused by a unimaginable tragedy (Uvalde parents?)... sticking-up for such people is honorable, no doubt.

You paint a picture that the elite at WS are driving people away from the sport... like there is a large number of sail makers and boat mechanics that are oppressed by these elites and can never sail. Really? Is that really the case?

Maybe there are some that can't sail in the class they want. Or can't qualify for Corinthian... but does it stop them from sailing. I don't know one person.

And to paint such people as helpless... and you're carrying the torch for them... I guess good for you. I'll volunteer at a soup kitchen and other volunteer opportunities I can find.

WS isn't perfect, and the world isn't fair. Can you not objectively see they have to draw the line universally someplace? I understand you aren't happy to be on the Cat-3 side... but there are bigger crosses in life, aren't there?
 

Gouvernail

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First off… I am not sufficiently motivated about this “horror” to do much beyond occasionally posting in SA.

How many are being screwed by a bulk shot system isn’t even a significant factor. My position is , the system is wrong. Itbis based upon the bulkshit assumption that people in the boat business have no morals and will sneak and take money for racing so we may as well ban all the scumbags.

It is as absurd as treating all people with cunts as prostitutes.

No other sport has such an absurd definition of a pro.

Sailing is not so unique it needs a special definition of professional.
Either you are paid to race or you are not.
 

gt-MTb

Member
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@Gouvernail - what sports are you talking that have significant amateur status? Not trying to be a dick, looking for good examples.

The best example I can think of is golf. The USGA US Amateur Championship is a highly noteworthy accomplishment... Bobby Jones, Jack Nicholas, Tiger Woods... and others won as pure amateurs.

Their definition, straight from the USGA website:

All golfers are amateurs unless they:

  • Accept a prize that is not allowed under Rule 3: Prizes,
  • Play in a golf competition as a professional,
  • Accept payment or compensation for giving instruction that is not allowed under Rule 4: Instruction,
  • Are employed (including being self-employed) as a golf club or driving range professional, or
  • Hold membership of an association for professional golfers.
So how exact do you view WS as being different?
 

Gouvernail

Lottsa people don’t know I’m famous
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@Gouvernail - what sports are you talking that have significant amateur status? Not trying to be a dick, looking for good examples.

The best example I can think of is golf. The USGA US Amateur Championship is a highly noteworthy accomplishment... Bobby Jones, Jack Nicholas, Tiger Woods... and others won as pure amateurs.

Their definition, straight from the USGA website:

All golfers are amateurs unless they:

  • Accept a prize that is not allowed under Rule 3: Prizes,
  • Play in a golf competition as a professional,
  • Accept payment or compensation for giving instruction that is not allowed under Rule 4: Instruction,
  • Are employed (including being self-employed) as a golf club or driving range professional, or
  • Hold membership of an association for professional golfers.
So how exact do you view WS as being different?
Your golf example reinforces my gripe.

Golf doesn’t call golf club makers Professionals.
Golf doesn’t call golf bag makers professionals
 

gt-MTb

Member
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Golf doesn’t call golf club makers Professionals.
Golf doesn’t call golf bag makers professionals
Ok, I can be fair, reading more about it, my mind can be opened, golf does seem to allow more leeway... interesting.

That doesn't mean I'm fully convinced the grey area of sailmakers and some in the marine industry should be ignored... golf is individual... sailing is a crew, with owners having big budgets to throw around to such sail makers and marine professionals.

What exactly is WS/Cat-3
preventing you from doing? All this and I still don't get what exactly the specific harm is to you? Is it not being able to enter Corinthian? Excluded from sailing J105's? What?
 

Gouvernail

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The rule has zero influence on my personally. All my sailing is enjoyed in welcoming fleets where we cherish sharing the game with the very best sailors.
My gripe is aimed at exclusionary types who, even though I fully understand their desire not to engage in a crew buying contest, have used a sweeping rule that eliminates people based upon the perception those people lack the morals necessary to honestly admit when they are being paid.
The rule assumes the people who build sailing equipment and maintain boats for all of us ALL take money whether they admit it or not.

I find that thinking to be offensive. I am annoyed my fellow sailors tolerate such unfair treatment of those who build our equipment and maintain it.

So…. Every once in a while I throw up a few posts, attempting to get others to consider how bad the system sucks.
 




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